Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

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rmunns
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Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by rmunns »

I hope someone will take pity on me and help me understand the situation i have found myself in.

I need to know whether you get a warning engine management light on the dashboard if the fuel filter (diesel) needs replacing.

If I know whether or not that would happen then I can perhaps unravel the complicated situation I have regarding buying the car with existing faults. This is against the law in France - an owner or garage must not sell a car with a known fault unless he/she tells the buyer at the time.

So, can anyone please advise me?
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The EML is not specifically lit for the replacement of a fuel filter.

It is lit for a myriad of reasons and possibly through any one of a 100 plus fault codes. It may be related to a faulty component that causes an underlying problem with the engine management system which then switches the EML on in certain cases - but not for any one specific component Roger.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by doctle »

Fuel filter is about €30 say 25% less to a dealer, no reason why the dealer wouldn't change the filter to get a sale. I'd be a little wary caveat emptor
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by rmunns »

Marc, thanks. This will help enormously in arguing that a condition existed when I bought the car and hence must be fixed by the seller.
Doctyl, there is more to this story, the fuel filter is just being used as a shield to cover up a more serious problem that was there before I bought the car.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can give you any number of fault codes that will activate an EML Roger - from EGR issues to Additive problems, to electrovalves, to rail pressure etc. etc...
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by doctle »

If he said it needed a fuel filter and it needed a fuel filter fair enough. If he said it needed a fuel filter and it needed a DPF its not on you I would think. Did you get it scanned with diagnostic?
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by moizeau »

If he's told you 'don't worry about the EML, it just needs the fuel filter replacing' he's diddling you. Tell him to change the filter and offer to pay for it if it extinguishes the light....which it won't.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by doctle »

I had a 307 that went down on power, CEL was on and a diagnostic scan said low fuel pressure, this was coming from the fuel filter being clogged. So it's possible but as the OP said ask him to change it and offer to pay.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by RichardW »

If the light only comes on when you boot it, then there's a good chance that it is as Doctle says and the filter needs changing as you get low fuel pressure. Changed the filter on my 3008 recently for just this reason.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by rmunns »

I'll elaborate as succinctly as I can, after a sleepless night. Bought car with 110000miles (177000km) June last year, from an 'Intermediary dealer'. Here in France such companies sell cars on behalf of clients, taking a commission. This outfit I dealt with are big in France and seem pretty well respected. Immediately on picking-up the car I saw engine management light (didn't see on test run because screen brightness was right down). The company asked me to take car to a garage (they phoned the garage to make the immediate appointment). Report by the guy who interrogated the car with a laptop plugged in said 'I've reset the light and there is nothing showing on this mini diagnostic'. On the way home 15miles the car was misfiring a bit. I'll have to cut this short, because I could go on for pages. The only concession I've had is for the fuel filter to be changed (TWICE, would you believe), them saying this was the problem. Basically there is still the misfiring, although only from time to time and it has never stopped the car more just a nuisance. Two full diagnostics have been done, by a full Peugeot dealer (an English-friendly nearby garage, using Peugeot diagnostic test (=same engine) and a diesel specialist (he used Bosch ESI[tronic] 2.0 analysis) Both came up with detailed results, showing 4 faulty injectors. One estimate 1920euros, one 1400euros. I am convinced the misfiring prob. was there before I bought the car. The latest (this week) diagnosis, by the diesel specialists, gives the kms that each injector fault appears at. All are conveniently a few hundred km after I bought the car. I'm saying nothing else to the dealer - and I can't talk to the original vendor whose car this was - I'm just going to see a lawyer.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by rmunns »

One more point I really need to know. I was told by the first guy with laptop that there was no previous history on the car's computer for the time before I bought the car. Question - is it possible to 'wipe' history from the car's computer?
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by doctle »

If you clear fault codes they are gone so any further scans only show fault codes that have been generated since the previous scan. That doesn't mean that the fault wasn't there eg my mate bought a Vectra that was showing CEL and scan said it was the EGR. Clearing the code he was able to NCT (MOT) the car. Fault came back after 60 miles. It was there but no CEL for a short time.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by rmunns »

Thanks. Are you saying that 'old' fault codes go merely because they have been looked at, or do they need to be 'cleared' for them to vanish forever? Would a garage routinely clear the codes when they had examined or would they leave them on, so as to have a complete car history? It is looking as if I'm just gonna have to suck this one up. But I don't understand why all 4 injectors need replacing.
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

It does depend on the type of fault. 'Temporary' faults will clear if the condition that caused them has go away and there have been a certain number of cycles (normally 5 engine starts) without the cause re-occurring. 'Permanent' faults are more serious, and need to be cleared after reading to make them go away (after the cause has been resolved).
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Re: Am I being done over? C4 Picassio 1.6Hdi 2011

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You're all wrong on this :shock: :-D

There should also be a history of fault codes that can be accessed. I've seen it a number of times when i wanted to know how long a fault code has been triggered.

I had this for a rear light on one of our vehicles - reversing light had been intermittent - no permanent fault code generated - but there was a history of it in one of the log files. It showed me that the fault had been triggered over a year or longer and had about 100 triggers - and the same with other faults we had (oil pressure switch), again no fault and has been cleared, but showed up historically - which is useful to see. These were using Lexia. The diagram below is for Diagbox as Roger has a C4 Picasso which will use this software.

This log is maintained by the BSI itself - accessible from the top left menu somewhere IIRC. It should list all the historical faults.

Update:
I've just dug up my Diagnostic kit to show you - Here is where you access historical logs: There is an arrow in the top left corner under the Citroen logo. Click this to get the drop down menu shown.
Diagbox Fault Log.png
Now most mechanics / workshops rarely go into this section (as it is always closed), so there is a good chance that you can retrieve this data (remember it will be stored in the BSI and not with the dealer, so I would suggest Roger, that you try an locate somebody with Diagbox who can access this log and print it off for you as evidence, and hope that the entire history has not been manually and deliberately erased.

This is different from a Global Test and reading / clearing the faults from a diagnostic scan - this is a historical record I am talking about here which will remain until it is deliberately erased.