C5 X7 won't start

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adrianruk
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C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Hi
More problems! Went to start my C5 after a couple of idle weeks & it started but ran awfully & cut out after about 15 seconds. It wouldn't restart. I have recharged the battery & done a BSI reset but it still won't go. Turns over but no sign of starting. Also I have a number of electrical items not working; heating, windows mirrors, wipers etc. I've checked most of the accessible fuses but suspect one of the main fuses may be at fault. Any suggestions? I'm reluctant to call out Homestart.
TIA
Adrian
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bobins
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by bobins »

Take the cover off the underbonnet fuse box and stick your nose in there and have a good sniff - making sure you avoid getting a shock, obvs ! There are quite a few cases of the fusebox/BSI frying due to a short circuit - I think it was something to do with badly routed / incorrect spec starter cables when manufactured. If it smells burnt under there then that may point towards your problem 8-[
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Hi bobins
Thanks for the help. I've had a good sniff under there but there's nothing abnormal that I (or my wife!) can smell.
I suspect there may well be a maxi fuse gone but which one & why I dread to think. I think that's my next step. i have checked those fuses previously but can't remember the procedure. I'll have another search through the forum.
Thanks again
Adrian
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Update.
Failure to start was caused by a broken injector clamp fork allowing the injector to come out. I had that & another injector resealed a few weeks ago & one of the other forks was found to be cracked then. I wonder if there was a problem with them?
Anyhow it has resolved all of my other electrical problems too. Damned clever these Citroen electronis! I would have expected the engine to run on the 3 working cylinders but the computer wouldn't have any of that. I had no faults displayed on the dashboard at all surprisingly.
Adrian
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

They will be logged in the engine management ECU - not all faults result in a dash message or warning light Adrian.
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

My tale of woe continues. Last Wednesday I started the car to be greeted by the now familiar sound of a blowing injector. Investigation revealed it was no. 2 fork that had failed. This had been replaced less than 1000 miles ago. Had strong words with the garage that had been doing the work. I decided I would do it myself this time to ensure it was done right.
The next problem I did not expect. The forks are on back order from Citroen & would take about 10 working days to get to me. Spent most of Thursday chasing dealers around the whole of the UK & found 2 dealers who each had one in stock. Ordered one & requested next day delivery. Friday came & went - no delivery. Still not here today so thought I would remove the injector ready for replacement. Removed the fork & had a good look round. I was horrified to find that the original clamps on cylinders 1 & 3 each had one side failed. So I now need 3 sets which are not available meaning the car comes off the road for a couple of weeks.
My wife has understandably come to the end of her tether & hates the car. We are off out tomorrow looking for another Mercedes. Our return to Citroen has been very, very disappointing.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Very sorry to hear that Adrian. You have the DW10CTED4 engine which was the updated and modified Euro 5 version of the DW10BTED4 that I have.

They made a lot of changes on that engine - cutting this and that, adding this and that, changing the air doser, moving parts around, changing some emissions all to make the engine more Euro compliant. I purposefully stuck to the previous engine as I had it on my MK II and it is well tried and trusted, with never a problem.

These are the main changes over the earlier engine and not surprisingly, most of the issues with this engine on the Forum have been with the first 5 items!
A post here with a failed fork on a 508 - same engine as one example:

viewtopic.php?t=63660

But they did increase the high pressure circuit to 2000 bar as you can see.
  • New integral engine top (HMI)
  • Electrically-controlled exhaust gas recycling valve
  • Exhaust gas recycling (EGR) heat exchanger
  • Pneumatic exhaust gas recycling heat exchanger bypass flap
  • Exhaust gas recycling (EGR) with exchanger and by-pass at the front instead of at the rear on the DW10BTED4 engine ( make VALEO)
  • Exhaust gas recycling module (Valve and cooler cannot be separated)
  • Cylinder head with new combustion chamber (Type ECCS identical to the DW12BTED4 engine)
  • Variable flow oil pump
  • Variable geometry turbocharger without turbo pressure regulation valve (HTT)
  • Delphi 1.5 diesel injection system with high pressure circuit to 2000 bars
So I think you'll find this is a characteristic of this specific engine and not of the car itself, but little comfort I know. The lockdown has resulted in stocks running low and transport infrastructure delays as lots of parts were shipped in from Europe regularly.
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Thanks Marc
I didn't realise just how many changes to the engine had been made from the previous version. Don't think it helped the reliability. I was aware of the post on the 508. Indeed I will be using the torque & tightening settings you provided in that post. In fact I have just bought a 1/4" torque wrench for the purpose.
The car has just completed 67500 ish miles. Only about 1500 in the 11+ months I've had it. I have had a succession of problems all of which have resulted in our lack of trust in the car. When it's going well it's lovely. Unfortunately that's something of a rarity. Just sorted the auto gear lever interlock to have the tyre pressure sensors showing multiple punctures. The eco mode disabling the electric tailgate is a major source of frustration too. Along with the complicated & awkward cruise control system, which we use all the time.
I think Citroen have lost their way in recent years. I loved the old CX, BX, GS, 2CV, Diane & even the Visa. They were quirky but sensible. I have driven many happy hundreds of thousands of miles in them.
I'm afraid I'm getting yet another Mercedes. The E-class that the C5 replaced had given my wife 8 years & 70k miles of trouble free service. We only changed it because she wanted something smaller & I had a hankering for another C5. Our first one was excellent. Another E-class it is then!
Rant over!!
Will advise when the injectors are sorted.
Thanks again for all your invaluable help!
Adrian
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No worries bet of luck with the Merc - they're in the soup over emissions I see a la VW!
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Right 3 new sets of injector clamps, bolts & seals fitted. Struggling to get the rail to injector pipes to seal now. Citroen advise replacing them each time I believe. These have been on & off a few times now. I'm afraid of over-tightening them. Any idea of part numbers of new ones?
TIA
Adrian

PS Mercedes E250 CDI estate is settling in!
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by wheeler »

All HDi high pressure fuel pipes are meant to be replaced every time they are removed but i have never had a problem re using them & i have did this more times than I could even count.
Possibly over tightening them mishaped??
They are not meant to be too tight, only around 30nm or so.
Are you refitting them back to the same injector they came off?
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Hi Wheeler
I have to say that these were done up very tight when I dismantled them. They all looked okay though. I tightened them progressivly upon rebuild & nipped them up until I have finally got them all leak free. I had to tighten them much more than I would have liked though. At least they are sealed now & have survived a test drive.
Just got to replace the cambelt & water pump, a new MOT & it's ready for sale!
Love the car when everything is working right. Unfortunately that's a rare event.
So, so disappointed with this car.
Adrian
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

adrianruk wrote:
11 Aug 2020, 11:54
Right 3 new sets of injector clamps, bolts & seals fitted. Struggling to get the rail to injector pipes to seal now. Citroen advise replacing them each time I believe. These have been on & off a few times now. I'm afraid of over-tightening them. Any idea of part numbers of new ones?
TIA
Adrian

PS Mercedes E250 CDI estate is settling in!
Hi Adrian

Ok, so the pipes are as follows:
Adrian Pipes.PNG
Item (4) Part: 1570P4 £33.22 Each
Item (3) Part: 1570P5 £32.68 Each

All VAT inclusive.

Any other parts let me know.
adrianruk
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by adrianruk »

Thanks again Marc.
Eventually managed to get the pipes to seal but I had to tighten them much more than I was happy with. Not sure they'll take another change of injector clamps. Hopefully it won't be necessary. £130 is a n expense I can do without.
I'm hoping the cambelt change will go without incident. I 've done loads over the years with no problems but nothing goes smoothly with this car!
Adrian
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Re: C5 X7 won't start

Post by mark6535 »

I had the same problem on Sunday in the pissing rain 😂
Broke down last week as it shot injector #1 out.
New copper washers, plastic guides and return pipe. Would it fire up... No chance.
Hours and hours of checking rail pressures, injector power feeds etc still wouldn't fire.
Next day checked the exact same again.. Flicked the key and she started as though she had never been took to bits.

P. S. Ford sell the exact same injector clamps and always have them in stock. May even be able to dig out the Ford part number
Last edited by mark6535 on 19 Aug 2020, 19:18, edited 1 time in total.