ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

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patspiercing
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ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by patspiercing » 12 Aug 2019, 19:22

Hi,

I have a 2012 DS3 Sport 110HDi and have just encountered a problem.
I was on the motorway at about 120kph and started to accelerate. The car hesitated and then the ESP and Engine Management light came on and a fault message of ESP/ASP Fault. The car went into limp mode and so I limped to the nearest rest area.
I switched off the engine and restarted it hoping it would reset itself but "no joy" lights and message the same.
I noticed that my front nearside tyre was looking low on pressure ( confirmed at 15psi when I got home). I changed to the emergency spare tyre and limped the rest of the way home.
I have got a Peugeot Planet/Lexia 3 interface so will have a look at that tomorrow, although I have never used Lexia before so that might be a journey of discovery.

Is it possable that the electronics detected the inbalance between the wheels and put it into limp mode as a safety issue and that I only need to reset the fault codes and all will be ok, or is that too hopeful.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Mick

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by moizeau » 12 Aug 2019, 19:59

Before you reset the fault codes, note them. Then fix the tyre. Have you disabled the tyre pressure sensors?

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Aug 2019, 20:17

patspiercing wrote:
12 Aug 2019, 19:22
Hi,

I have a 2012 DS3 Sport 110HDi and have just encountered a problem.
I was on the motorway at about 120kph and started to accelerate. The car hesitated and then the ESP and Engine Management light came on and a fault message of ESP/ASP Fault. The car went into limp mode and so I limped to the nearest rest area.
I switched off the engine and restarted it hoping it would reset itself but "no joy" lights and message the same.
I noticed that my front nearside tyre was looking low on pressure ( confirmed at 15psi when I got home). I changed to the emergency spare tyre and limped the rest of the way home.
I have got a Peugeot Planet/Lexia 3 interface so will have a look at that tomorrow, although I have never used Lexia before so that might be a journey of discovery.

Is it possable that the electronics detected the inbalance between the wheels and put it into limp mode as a safety issue and that I only need to reset the fault codes and all will be ok, or is that too hopeful.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Mick
Post up your VIN Mick so I can see what kit you have first of all. That really shouldn't of activated an ESP warning for a partially deflated tyre.

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 12 Aug 2019, 23:58

It is possible that a heavily deflated tyre could have confused the ECUs. This could be because you were not braking but you had a when turning at a higher speed than the others (which could, for example, cause the ABS electronics to get 'upset). I recall when a forum member had issues with his Citroen XM. it turned out that (at least) one tyre was the wrong size, and this caused the wheel to turn at a speed inconsistent with the rest, which then caused the ECUs to get 'confused'. Once the tyres were resolved the ECUs stabilised.

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Aug 2019, 01:24

That won't be it, otherwise the ESP system would not be operational in the event of a blowout or puncture. The ESP is designed to keep the car under control and if the ESP warning light comes on it means the system has been deactivated - pretty pointless in that case.

I've had numerous tyre deflated warnings on journeys, and always (depending on the nature of the warning - deflated or punctured), may not do anything about it if I'm not more than a few miles from home or don't have the tyre inflator in the boot. Never has the ESP warning come up in that situation - nor would I expect it to on any of my vehicles with ESP.

The issue you are describing is when the wheels / tyres on an axle are changed for a different size not programmed into the ESP ECU. In that scenario, the readings would be anomalous as the system has strategies and backup modes for comparing values to diagonally opposite tyres for checking wheel speeds.

What could happen is if the wheel was knocked and the sensor is dislodged or possibly damaged, but not a deflated tyre.

patspiercing
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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by patspiercing » 13 Aug 2019, 07:52

Hi Guys,
Thanks for your thoughts.
My VIN number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
I will, of course note down the fault codes and post them on here.
I don't think I have tyre pressure sensors fitted.
I have had another problem which on further research could be related, as I understand that the ESP is related to ABS and braking.
Sometimes, particularly from high speed, when I brake I get a drumming noise as if a brake pad is worn to the metal. The next time I use the brakes it does not happen and may not happen again for a couple of weeks. When it first happened I checked all of the brakes and the pads were almost new and nothing else looked amiss. I put it down to something within the pads and thought that it would go away next time I changed the pads.
Could this be part of my issue?

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Aug 2019, 09:58

Ok, so no Tyre Pressure Monitoring System and no Electronic Parking brake fitted to your vehicle.

The ESP ECU controls both ABS and ESP functions.

In light of the additional info, I suspect you may have either a warped / worn brake disc / worn brake pads. When the car is travelling at speed, the discs get extremely hot when braking - especially at high speed. Rapid cooling (going through water / heavy rain) can also warp the discs, especially if they are getting a bit on the thin side.

It's also possible that one of your brake calipers is binding (sticking intermittently), which may be causing the ABS wheel speed sensor to report a speed anomaly. When the ABS wheel speed signal returns to normal values or when the ignition is switched off and on again (self check), the error will likely clear until the next time it happens.

If you have new pads and they are the correct ones, suspect the brake discs. Reading any stored fault code will possibly point to the wheel concerned - if it is a wheel speed sensor.

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by myglaren » 13 Aug 2019, 10:35

Keep an eye on it. I had similar vibration recently that I put down to a warped disk. Booked it in for a replacement.
I was on my way down the A1 and the vibration was constant so abandoner the trip, went to the nearest roundabout to go home. Stopped at the roundabout and there was a strong burning smell - pads stuck on. Went home and the following day went to the shop and to jetwash the car - only a mile.
Came out of the shop and a pool of brake fluid around the nearside wheel. Had to buy brake fluid from Halfords and top up - it was practically empty, drove home and it was empty again. Filled it up and put clingwrap under the reservoir cap to seal it. Removed clingwrap and took it to garage next morning and there was essentially no braking, just used engine braking and handbrake for the three lots of traffic lights.

New disc, caliper and handbrake cable needed. It all happened quite quickly.

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by patspiercing » 13 Aug 2019, 14:54

Right here goes!!!

I have connected to Diagbox at got the following faults:
BSI

F5FF Unexpected re-initialisation fault coming from BSI
F03D Absense of communication with the hands-freekit ecu or the nomad control unit

ENGINE ECU

P1AA2 Voltage Retaining Device
P0342 Measurement for the camshaft position
P16A3 Control unit (114118Km)
P0263 Cylinder 1 (81312Km)
P0269 Cylinder 3 (114191Km)
U0140 Intersystems CAN
P0266 Cylinder 2 (69570Km)
P1506 Intersystems CAN (115777Km)
P0271 Injector 4 Signal (115768Km) S/C between 2 wires

ABS or ESP ECU

C1391 Non confirmation of engine torque
U2000 Fault on intersystems CAN network

I brought the car with 80,000Km and it has now done 115,816Km so I would assume that the last 2 faults on Engine ECU and the ABS/ESP faults are the important ones.

I have cleared all the faults then restarted the engine. Still got Engine Management Light and ESP light.

I have run another global test and faults C1391, F03D and P0271 re-appear
I assume that the main fault is the injector 4 fault.
Any ideas please.

Mick

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Aug 2019, 15:16

Ok so let's focus on the main faults.

The C1391 as it relates to your engine ECU means non-acknowledgement of the engine torque fault. In other words, the information between the ESP ECU and the Engine ECU is incorrect. As a result all ESP functions are disabled (so be aware you will only have ABS functionality until resolved).

The suspect areas are the Engine ECU, the ESP ECU or a fault on the CAN network.

Looking at the other fault code: U2000 in relation to the above:

"main triggering status word reception anomaly". In other words, the data being received by the ESP is invalid or makes no sense. In light of the previous fault code it would make sense that the info it is getting from the Engine ECU is getting corrupted along the route.

Again - this will cause all ESP functions to be disabled whilst the fault is in operation.

The likely suspect here is the electrical harness of the BSI.

So I would start by checking all plugs and wiring between the ESP ECU on the hydraulic block and the engine ECU. Check for contamination, short circuit, loose plug, loose pin etc.

Make sure you have not connected any third party equipment (radios, chargers or anything else non standard into the electrical sockets / USB ports).

Has any work been done recently on it where the wiring or plugs could of been dislodged? Have you disturbed the BSI in the passenger compartment glovebox?

The earlier faults seem to have disappeared - but some may come back once you start driving the car, so undertake another global test later after you have cleared these faults and gone for a drive.

There's a few pointers for you.

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 13 Aug 2019, 20:12

It could be worth getting hold of a contact cleaner for when you check the connections. Personally I prefer 'Servisol', as it is a very good one. As you unplug each connector (assuming you do so) a quick spray contact cleaner into each plug and socket can help (I would then plug/unplug the connectors a few times, to help remove any tarnish on the contacts). At worst (assuming you don't cause any damage to the wiring/connectors) you will not change anything, but it can help to eliminate a possible problem.

patspiercing
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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by patspiercing » 14 Aug 2019, 09:52

Hi, Thanks for your thoughts.
No work has been done on the car recently and nothing extra has been connected to it. I am trying to get a workshop manual at the moment but struggling. I have brought a download but it uses VM Player and seems difficult to use and does not actually give me any information. I have complained to the seller and am awaiting his response.
Can you tell me where the ECUs and the BSI are located.
My car is LEFT hand drive.
I would have thought that the P0271 fault would be the most important as it affects the running of the engine.

Thanks for your help
Mick

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Aug 2019, 10:09

Here you go.

Click the images to zoom

Here's the Engine ECU Location:
Harness 10PR is the one that links the engine ECU to the BSI
DS3 Engine ECU.PNG
Here's the BSI (driver's side LHD) behind the cubby hole IIRC:
DS3 BSI.PNG
General location on the car. The Engine ECU is number 1320, the BSI is BSI1:
ECU Location.PNG

patspiercing
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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by patspiercing » 14 Aug 2019, 10:54

Hi Marc,
I have checked the connections on the BSI and the Engine ECU and there are no signs of corrosion. They look as good as the day they came out of the factory.
I have managed to look at a wiring diagram and found that pins L1 and L3 on the Engine ECU go to injector 4. I have checked the plug across these 2 pins with a multimeter and they are not short circuit, so I am not sure where that fault code P0271 is coming from.
I have not located the ESP ECU.
Thanks
Mick

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Re: ESP Fault, Engine Management Light & Limp Mode

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Aug 2019, 11:20

It's Pins L3 and M3 that go to injector 4, L1 goes to injector 3.

7800 is the ESP ECU on the diagram in my previous post.

Below is the Injection ECU for your vehicle: 1334 is injector No 4 (1331-1334 Injectors 1-4)

Image