C5 tourer not starting - camshaft position sensor?

[Agour]

Hello!

I have a 2009 C5 that won't start. Starter kicks in, but it won't fire. I'm really struggling with it and not sure how to fix it.

There was an intermittent problem with the cruise control where it wouldn't enable, so plugged it into my friends computer and had the following errors:
P1607 vehicle speed limitation
P1671 cruise control
P0341 camshaft signal

I ordered a cheap camshaft position sensor from eBay, plugged it in and the car wouldn't start. (Same symptoms as now, where starter kicks in but it doesn't fire).

Swapped the sensor back for original one and it worked ok. I then bought a Bosch sensor, which started fine. Left the car overnight, came back and it wouldn't start again. Swapped to original sensor and same issue persists.

I also swapped the battery at the same time as the sensor, and the battery voltage is fine.

Any ideas? Do I need to plug it into the computer when I install a new sensor or something?

Wiring to the loom from the sensor seemed ok at first glance, but I haven't had time to investigate it properly.

Thanks!
Paul

[GiveMeABreak]

A couple of things - cheap sensors are often a waste of money
Battery charge is everything - make sure it is fully charged
Cruise control will be deactivated on detection of any fault relating to the engine issues and the speed sensor issue will cause the engine ECU to deactivate it.

For accurate info on the fault codes I need your VIN as the codes are different depending on engine and engine ECU.

I'm going on the assumption that this is the DW10BTED4 engine (138).

In that case, ignore the first 2 faults as these are related to the cruise and speed limiter functions and I have explained why those won't work whilst there is a speed anomaly issue.

Which exact sensors did you replace as there are 2 sensors that can cause the starting issue:
The engine speed sensor and the Camshaft Position Sensor:

Item 15 is the Camshaft Position Sensor
Item 4 is the Engine Speed Sensor

P0341 for the engine I mentioned relates to the problem with synchronisation of the camshaft. There is no synchronisation for 2 to 3 engine revolutions between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor for making the 1st injection.

Suspect areas are

• Engine speed sensor target
• Engine speed sensor
• Camshaft sensor
• Electrical harness

The correct part for the Engine Speed Sensor (4) is 1920GJ and 1920QN for the Camshaft Position Sensor. But again - don't bother with cheap parts, a lot of these are utter tat.

Again - all the above is subject to confirmation by VIN.

[Agour]

Awesome, thank you! I thought as much with the cheap sensors, gonna stick to big branded ones in future.

Strangely the battery was reading 12.2v It was definitely 12.7 when I put it in – I figure the alarm drained it a bit overnight?
My old battery also ready 12.0-12.2 hence replacing it, but perhaps the battery was OK after all.

Just pm'd you my VIN code, will be great to know if those are indeed the correct part codes.

I replaced the camshaft position sensor for sure. It was easily accessed at the top of the engine with a single m4 allen bolt.

I’m getting my friends computer in an hour or so. I’ll plug it back in to confirm the codes again, and see if I can get any more data from it.

Thanks for the help.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, confirmed, correct engine and correct parts as I already listed.

[Agour]

After a bit of a hassle, the car is finally running again! Although I don’t feel confident that it will last.
This is the order I went about things:
New camshaft sensor and new engine speed sensor = car not starting.

Old camshaft sensor and new engine speed sensor = car starting.

Old camshaft sensor and old engine speed sensor = car starting (huh?! It didn’t start like this a few days ago).

I then tried a few variations, which sometimes started and sometimes didn’t. I can’t actually remember exactly which worked and which didn’t here.

Ultimately it seems that old camshaft sensor and new engine speed sensor = car starting… For now.

The annoying thing is that there was no clear cut combination that worked or didn’t work. Some combinations worked sometimes, but not other times. I guess the old engine speed sensor may just have an intermittent fault, and my car doesn’t like the new camshaft sensor? (Even though it was Bosch).

[myglaren]

I could well be mistaken but think that the positioning of the sensors is critical - that is the distance from the surface they are monitoring.

[Agour]

At one stage a few days ago the car wouldn't start until we moved the camshaft position sensor slightly, so you're probably right. But in some instances I wiggled the sensors and tried again, to no avail

[GiveMeABreak]

Also, don't forget it will take the engine ECU a while to sort itself out - so don't be swapping them about all the time or you'll confuse the bu**er even more.

Always follow my battery disconnect procedure: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61997 before changing any electrical components. When you switch off the engine the engine ECU memorises certain settings and values from the various sensors. It can take a while for the new data to be read in and adjusted.

So assuming they are fitted correctly as Steve said and they're not duff / dodgy Chinese jobbies, fit the new ones after disconnect procedure and then follow reconnection, then go for a spin and let the car warm up to ensure it is getting the the new values. That's assuming she does start up of course!

[Agour]

Yep that makes sense with the new sensors etc.

Car has been running fine for a few days now with no issues. I did notice a BSI fault on the computer - F5FF "unexpected re-initialisation fault coming from the BSI".

I guess I should do your battery disconnect procedure to reset the BSI and hopefully clear this?

Cheers

[GiveMeABreak]

This one:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61997

Won't do any harm.

[Toony]

Hi I have a 2008 Citroen c5 tourer… cut out random and wouldn’t start again.. got it recovered home.. had it plugged in and it says P0341 camshaft signal/signal absent.. tried replacing the part with a new one and the car still won’t fire.. The only fault code that is popping up on my mates snap on obd reader is P0341 camshaft signal… does this mean I will need a new better camshaft part ? Really struggling to find a way to get it to start now and have no more ideas! Any help from you guys is highly appreciated!!!
I found the original camshaft sensor. Should I try putting that back on? And seeing if car runs ? Do I need to do the battery method I see someone had said to do when changing sensor?
Thanks kaine

[GiveMeABreak]

Make sure you haven't replaced it with a cheap sensor - these are known to faulty or dead on arrival in a lot of cases. if you suspect the sensor, make sure you get a decent branded one.

However, you say you've replaced the camshaft sensor, but it can also be the engine speed sensor - see below:

Here is the descriptor... have you had the timing done recently?

Fault Code:	P0341
Description of Fault:	Camshaft signal: Loss of synchronisation. Description of the diagnostics: No synchronisation for 2 to 3 engine revolutions between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor for making the 1st injection.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Under starter
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem
Suspect Areas:	Engine speed sensor target Engine speed sensor Camshaft sensor Timing Electrical harness Connector

[wheeler]

Hi I have a 2008 Citroen c5 tourer… cut out random and wouldn’t start again.. got it recovered home.. had it plugged in and it says P0341 camshaft signal/signal absent.. tried replacing the part with a new one and the car still won’t fire.. The only fault code that is popping up on my mates snap on obd reader is P0341 camshaft signal… does this mean I will need a new better camshaft part ? Really struggling to find a way to get it to start now and have no more ideas! Any help from you guys is highly appreciated!!!
I found the original camshaft sensor. Should I try putting that back on? And seeing if car runs ? Do I need to do the battery method I see someone had said to do when changing sensor?
Thanks kaine

Have you checked the timing belt has not broken or slipped?? Snapped timing belt = no camshaft sensor signal.

The camshaft sensor is normally only used for initial starting, one the engine is running it doesn't actually need it so wouldn't normally cause the engine to stop whilst driving.

[Toony]

Hi mate I also replaced the speed sensor along with a £41 something cam shaft sensor…! I’m aware as you say cheap ones are not the best… I’ve got a local Citroen dealership and be said £62 for a new genuine cam shaft sensor.. gonna order that new part and also I’m gonna get my mate to check the timing belt etc! Thankyou for replying on a quick response! I’ll be sure to keep updates !

[Toony]

Also how far away are you guys !? I’m Tamworth based if anyone is close and can come along and try some things you lot know already I’d really appreciate it! If so comment and we can sort something but I’m really looking to diagnose the problem from hear fingers crossed