HT Lead

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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HT Lead

Unread post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Can I replace just the HT Lead part of the Ignition Armature on my "Briggs & Stratton 4 Stroke Gasoline Engine"

fitted to my "Wolseley Merry Tiller", gu-estimate 1950's vintage?

...or how on earth do I go about replacing the entire part? Is there a relevant measurement? The machine certainly isn't going to feature in many parts catalogues!
20190603_203115.jpg
The machine was running when last put away. I gave it a dose of oil via the Spark Plug hole prior to turning it over and Compression appears good, but the Spark is much more 'Miss' than 'Hit', occasionally excellent but mostly absent, including with a decent plug (not shown in pics) hence my suspicions falling on the HT. (I put the red Insulation tape on suspecting it was shorting out on the Cowling)

The machine is a £20 Gamble from Facebook, at less than half the cost of a day's Rotovator Hire, it'll be a very useful tool in my garden, which bears the scars of being severely unloved for a number of years prior to my moving in.... if it'll run.

First goal is to get a moment's running on Easy Start.

...or does anyone know a helpful Forum / Facebook Group that might be more appropriate to this topic?
20190603_203240.jpg
Thanks!

NB: If I can't get it to run, it'll be back on sale at the £20 I paid for it + any parts expenses incurred.

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myglaren
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by myglaren »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 21:57


...or does anyone know a helpful Forum / Facebook Group that might be more appropriate to this topic?
Perhaps autoshite? they are often mentioned there.

moizeau
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by moizeau »

Answer to the question about the HT lead, no it doesn't unscrew from the coil. It's replace all or cut and repair using a threaded joiner. The coil will be be the same as on many lawnmowers. The only difference between the vertical and horizontal shaft engine is an oil thrower on the crank of yours. Check that the flywheel is positioned on the keyway correctly. If anyone has had it apart who doesn't know they think the key holds the flywheel in place, it doesn't, it locates it prior to tightening to a torque of FT. Without a flywheel holder you can undo and retighten using a lump hammer and a T bar (or rattle gun). You will probably need to make a puller. If it's not tightened fully the inertia shock of the first start brakes the 'soft' woodruff key and throws the timing out. There's loads of manuals and parts diagrams on line for Briggs on their official site. If it is the coil, any coil off a Briggs engine with the same diameter flywheel will work. I've even recut the laminates from a 5hp and fitted it to an 11hp and it works.
If you use the engine number on the Briggs site it will tell you what's fitted and build date.
As you can see this is a little hobby of mine, I have about 10 engines in various states, most given to me because they were dead (but they live). If you let me know the engine size or flywheel diameter I probably have a coil.
They rarely die, it's just a question of whether they're economically viable to repair. Which is why I keep all spares.

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bobins
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by bobins »

It's a Briggs - therefore there will be spares :)
Get the Model, Type, Code off of the engine, look it up on the Briggs website or Google for the parts list. Google the relevant coil p/n as it will have been superceded. Ebay usually comes up trumps for such parts. You set the correct air gap between the flywheel and coil by using a piece of thin card (fag packet, etc) between the coil and flywheel, then tighten down. Job's a good-un :-D

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xantia_v6
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by xantia_v6 »

Years ago, my brother borrowed a rotovator and then found that it had no spark, being a weekend we couldn't pick up a coil, so we wired a motorcycle coil and 12V motorcycle battery up the the points, got spark, then strapped the coil and battery to the machine and happily dug-over the garden.

I seem to recall that a well-worn Briggs engine could have excessive play in the main bearings, upsetting the timing of the points and causing a poor spark. Also the clearance between the flywheel and coil is fairly critical, being exactly a standard business card thickness :-D

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by NewcastleFalcon »

=D> Got to be said, there's some stock of knowledge on the FCF :-D

Regards Neil

Gibbo2286
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

It's possible my dad had a hand in building that machine, he worked at 'The Wolseley' for over forty years.

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bobins
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by bobins »

We've a lot to thank the little Merry Tiller rotavators for :) If it wasn't for them soldiering on each year, thousands of allotments up and down the country would be overgrown and abandoned and quite possibly built on by now.

moizeau
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by moizeau »

xantia_v6 wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 07:39
I seem to recall that a well-worn Briggs engine could have excessive play in the main bearings, upsetting the timing of the points and causing a poor spark. Also the clearance between the flywheel and coil is fairly critical, being exactly a standard business card thickness :-D
That's 'cause there are no bearings in a Briggs, unless you class a shim sitting in oil a bearing :rofl2: That's why when the lawnmowers get abused the vertical crankshaft eats it's way into the bottom crankcase, leaving a lot of end float.How do Briggs get round this???
They supply numerous crankcase gaskets in their rebuild kit, you just add more to achieve the correct end float.
Hondas on the other hand are bearinged to death.

I got one of my sit on mowers because the owner had ran it very low on oil and it snapped a conrod with the extra friction / heat. Stripped it and the crank was smeared with molten conrod. I used a bit of hydochloric acid to wash the conrod remains away, rebuilt it, that was 4 years ago, still fine today.

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Wow, I'm amazed by all the responses, thanks everyone.

Pete: the Flywheel size is 143mm and the engine number, is it stamped onto the Block, coz its long gone from here
20190603_204523 Improved.jpg
This number is stamped and partly visible in the photo, but I'd guess it to be more likely a Chassis number: 80302 0154 01 6403303

I could also use a Belt for it as the existing belt actually has a couple of Chunks missing, but I was hoping it'd do the few hours use I need it for without snapping....

...and an Exhaust (its rusted away, but I don't suppose its going to be ridiculously loud without it) and a Belt Guard are 'ideally yes, but in the real world probably not' purchases.

...especially as I’m mindful that at any reasonable price this little lot could be quite a bit more than I’m willing to spend on the machine; so please don't spend ages rooting out bits to then find I don't wish to spend the money. It might be more sensible to point me in the direction of a cheap Coil on eBay or an appropriate search term.

I'm pretty confident the machine had previously been in the same owner's hands for many years, with precious little attention; so thankfully the Flywheel issue shouldn't apply and I didn't notice any play when turning it with a 16mm Ratchet, which conveniently fitted the output shaft rather nicely.

Be nice to keep it going then Gibbo :) Where was the Wolseley plant then? ...and is this the same firm best known (to me) for the 1500 Minor competitor?
and yes Neil, we do have a broad range of knowledge don't we!!

NB: what's the correct oil level? I've found the check screw thingummy, and its got some which looks to be in fair nick; but should it be up to the level of the filler?

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 13:54
This number is stamped and partly visible in the photo, but I'd guess it to be more likely a Chassis number: 80302 0154 01 6403303
Oh dear, Derr! Did I really just say that about a number that's stamped on the engine?! Oops :rofl2:

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bobins
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by bobins »

That number stamped on the cover - that's the Model / Type / Code ! You can decipher date of manufacture (of the engine) from that as well as getting the parts list. I haven't got my parts diagrams with me, but you're after a diagram for an 80302 engine. The Briggs website will tell you all :-)
Early Merry Tillers didn't have belt guards so you could consider it an optional extra :wink:

moizeau
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by moizeau »

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/conte ... mestic.pdf
Here's the manual, it's a 3 hp, that's the only one I haven't got a coil for. Any 3 or 31/2 hp mower one will fit. The sparks are crap when the are OK. Chuck a teaspoon of petrol down the sparkplug hole and see if it tries?

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bobins
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by bobins »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
04 Jun 2019, 13:54

I could also use a Belt for it as the existing belt actually has a couple of Chunks missing, but I was hoping it'd do the few hours use I need it for without snapping....
Belts are surprisingly cheap :) Yours probably has an 'A' section belt, but check section size here:
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/V-Belts--3290-c

You can also find what length your old one is by measuring the outside length and putting that into the calculator top left here (note, this is for 'A' section belts):
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/A-Belts-13mm-x-8mm-1059-c

Don't use a standard belt length calculator (size of pulleys / distance between pulleys) to work out what belt you require as you need to fit one with a little slack so you can use that slack as clutch.

...and an Exhaust (its rusted away, but I don't suppose its going to be ridiculously loud without it)


If you can get the right angled iron pipe to move in its exhaust port so the exhaust won't foul on anything then you could fit one of these:
Image
eBay image - fair use

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-Fits ... =651377541

...or one of these:

Image
eBay image - fair use

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-for- ... 2836449621

Which would turn it from a noisy rattly engine into a very slightly less noisy rattly engine :-D

Gibbo2286
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Re: HT Lead

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

"Be nice to keep it going then Gibbo Where was the Wolseley plant then? ...and is this the same firm best known (to me) for the 1500 Minor competitor? "

Electric Avenue Witton Birmingham, Originators of the Wolseley cars but long separated off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wols ... ne_Company

Should also add that they made the Webb lawnmowers and that the company still exists as 'Plumb Center' here, in the USA and around the world.