Semi automatic stopping problem

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quefalta
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Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

Dear friends, experts or analysers,

I have an issue with my car that I have not succeed to find a solution so far. I want to ask for your help. I really like to hear what you think. My car model is Citroen semi automatic C3 2006 SX 1.4i Sensodrive. My problem is exactly that when I shift my car gear's Rear to Null or Rear to Forward my car's engine stops. I have to start the engine again. Have you ever encountered a problem like this? What can I do or what sould I do? If you tell me I will very appreciate. Thanks for all your help.
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Hello, and :welc: to the forum. I personally will not be able to help, but if you post up the VIN (which will be automatically obscured so that nobody other that a Moderator can read it) it will be possible for Moderators to look up the vehicle on the Citroen systems, and narrow down what the car had got when she rolled out of the factory.
quefalta
Posts: 9
Joined: 15 May 2019, 14:19
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
15 May 2019, 16:48
Hello, and :welc: to the forum. I personally will not be able to help, but if you post up the VIN (which will be automatically obscured so that nobody other that a Moderator can read it) it will be possible for Moderators to look up the vehicle on the Citroen systems, and narrow down what the car had got when she rolled out of the factory.



Thank you for your suggestion. I will get ve post up the number as soon as possible.
quefalta
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

Last week, I met my mechanic and he told me the problem was because of (3) selection actuator. But after that I went another mechanic and he told me the problem was because of clutch lining. So I am confused. Because clutch lining price is cheaper than selection actuator. If I choose to change selection actuator and my problem does not solve, I will spend money all for nothing. Here is the picture of my car engine. What do you suggest?
Attachments
ECU_Sensodrive_Connections_.jpg
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You need to get it diagnosed with Lexia. There will likely be a fault code that we can use to help pinpoint the problem. Without this it will be a matter of guessing and could cost you unnecessary expense. Similar issues have been down to the clutch pressure plate - but we really do need a fault code.

Post your VIN code up along with any fault codes.
quefalta
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Joined: 15 May 2019, 14:19
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 09:57
You need to get it diagnosed with Lexia. There will likely be a fault code that we can use to help pinpoint the problem. Without this it will be a matter of guessing and could cost you unnecessary expense. Similar issues have been down tot he clutch pressure plate - but we really do need a fault code.

Post your VIN code up along with any fault codes.


The mechanics have done it by using Lexia in diffrent days but there was no error code at all. I think they want to find the solution by trying.
So I am searching solution or ideas by myself to understand possibilities. There are two actuators. Clutch actuator and gear change & selection actuator. My car's clutch actuator has changed before coming up with this problem. By the way, my car's clutch actoator has been changed because of the error known as snowflake symbol. But it was nearly 5 moths ago. And after changing clutch actuator there is no more snowflake symbol and no more problem about it. After this change, I have not done anything so far. Let me ask a simple question. What is the duty of gear change &selection actuator and clutch lining? Is there a way to find out the clutch lining need to be changed?

My car VIN code is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This will be difficult to diagnose in that case without a fault code - there are hundreds of fault codes, so I would of expected one. If there isn't a code, then it may well be the clutch itself - in that the clutch may not be disengaging, preventing you changing gear / stalling.

These are complex to diagnose accurately as it can be so many things like the gearbox or clutch actuators, the clutch itself. These are not very popular systems as they are notoriously difficult to repair when they go wrong and expensive to fix because of the parts but also the time involved to work out exactly what the issue is.

Some info on the system:
Senso A.PNG
Simplified plan of clutch actuator.
A) Clutch closed.
B) Clutch open.
C) Clutch wear adjustment.
(a) clutch release bearing.
(7) Clutch fork.
(10) Piston rod.
(11) Rod.
(12) Clutch wear adjustment system.
(12a) Cover plate.
(12b) Locking system.
(12c) Piston.
(12d) Clutch mechanism retaining spring.
(13) Force compensator spring.
(14) Toothed quadrant.
(15) Electric motor.
(15a) Position sensor ("Hall effect" sensor).
(15b) Rotor (magnetic field).
(15c) Electric motor manifold.

The electric motor ( 15) is controlled electrically by the gearbox ECU.
The electric motor is not supplied by the gearbox ECU in order to hold the clutch in the open or closed position.
To pilot the clutch, the gearbox ECU uses the two position sensors ( 15a).
The sensors are located opposite a magnetised phonic wheel which is linked to the rotor of the electric motor.
The sensors provide a square signal for the gearbox ECU when the electric motor is turning.


Opening of the clutch (B)
Sequence of operations:
  • The gearbox ECU supplies the electric motor ( 15)
  • The electric motor (15) drives the toothed quadrant (14)
  • The wear adjustment system locks (the locking system (12b) immobilises the components (12a) and (12c) together)
  • The rotation of the toothed quadrant causes the rod (11) to move
  • The clutch fork (7) causes the clutch bearing to move and the clutch to open
  • At the end of travel of the toothed wheel (14), the force compensator spring (13) assists the electric motor (15)
When the clutch is open (declutched position), the electric motor is no longer being supplied.
The declutch travel is the same whatever the state of clutch wear (20 mm approx.).

Closing of the clutch (A)
The gearbox ECU inverts the supply of the electric motor ( 15).
The toothed quadrant ( 14) resumes its initial position.
When the clutch is in the clutched position, the fork is no longer exerting a force on the wear adjustment system ( 12).
The wear adjustment system ( 12b) unlocks, the wear adjustment system can be compressed.

Clutch wear adjustment (C)
The wear adjustment system systematically locks as soon as the toothed wheel ( 14) is driven by the electric motor (15).
Clutch closed (clutched): the wear adjustment unlocks.
The spring ( 12d) allows a force to be exerted on the clutch bearing.
The clutch disc wear is compensated by the compression of the wear adjustment system ( 12).
As the clutch disc becomes worn :
  • The clutch mechanism pushes back the fork and the push rod
  • The clutch fork moves towards the push rod ( 10)
  • The spring (12d) compresses. The wear adjustment system shortens
[*]The length of the wear adjustment system is :

At maximum when the clutch is new
At minimum when the clutch is worn
N.B. : It is not possible to carry out repairs on the wear adjustment system.
quefalta
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

Thank you for your explanation. I have read it too many times to understand. By your open expression, I became to think my problem is due to the fault in clutch wear adjustment system or clutch itself altough the Lexia has not diagnose it. As you say, there is no repairment clutch wear adjustment system, I have to be changed the clutch. I hope it will solve my problem. I will share the results later. Thank you so much.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No problem - I just thought it might help you or your mechanic a little. These things are a nightmare - for future, better stick with a manual or a fully Auto :-D
quefalta
Posts: 9
Joined: 15 May 2019, 14:19
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Re: Semi automatic stopping problem

Post by quefalta »

Hello, everybody. I want to share latest results. My problem has been solved thanks to God. The problem was not due to clutch. The problem was due to cables which transmit commands to engine brain. Mechanic has told me that some of the cables were burnt and became out of order. After changing those cables there is no problem now. Thank you for all your help again.