Failed to proceed!

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mikeyb1949
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Failed to proceed!

Post by mikeyb1949 »

Hello folks, need some help please. Citroen C5 2.0 HDI 2006. My son's car actually, but I'm the one who gets lumbered with the problems. History: car packed up on way home, Phone call, Dad, help. Found a hole in fuel priming bulb, obviously a burst. Replaced this. Bled the system and changed fuel filter at same time. Now all that happens is that the lift pump in tank inflates the priming bulb to a "near to bursting size" and engine turns over for a couple of seconds then cuts itself off. We then have to wait until the pressure in the bulb subsides, before trying again. Fuel is returning to the tank via the return line so no blockages there. have re-newed the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail, no change. Borrowed a Lexia diagnostics kit. This gives 4 faults, all dscribed as Permanent. 1. Injector voltage converter voltage more than 90 and less than 40. 2.Battery voltage too low. Fitted new battery. 3.Pre-post heating relay circuit plugs permanently supplied 4. Injector control harness, injector, ECU power stage.
I am foxed. Contacted several mobile Auto Electricians. When I mentioned Citroen it all went quiet. 1 just said...Main dealer. Only 1 bothered to visit, and he couldn't find the fault!
It seems as if the car thinks that there is no fuel, so stops the starting procedure in order to prevent damage. Any ideas that won't break the bank. Son loves the car which is good apart from not running (bit important, that bit) but spending hundreds is just not worth it. Cheers folks. Mike.
Gibbo2286
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

If that's a C5 2 it doesn't (mine doesn't) have a pump in the tank so there's something else going on there.

Is the replacement primer bulb fitted wrong way round and a one way valve blocking the flow?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Pop your VIN up here so we know the exact specifics and also , do you have the exact fault codes that were displayed. Ignore the Glow Plug one -that is on most of these and always comes up.
wheeler
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by wheeler »

You normally see this when someone has misdiagnosed & fitted a faulty in tank pump when it doesn't actually have one. At a glance the tank units with & without an electric fuel pump look the same. The problem is that models without in tank pumps still have all the wiring present & its powered up so if you fit one it will work. Has the car recently had the fuel tank sender replaced by any chance or had a pump replaced?. If it has a hand primer bulb it shouldn't have an electric primer pump in the tank.
mikeyb1949
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by mikeyb1949 »

Thanks chaps.
Gibbo2286......there certainly is a pump in the tank, I can see and hear it. Also, if I disconnect the elbow on the top of the primer bulb from the filter housing, switch on the ignition, a strong flow of diesel pumps through. As soon as the elbow is reconnected, the fuel appears to get as far as the high pressure pump, but nothing happens apart from the bulb getting bigger and bigger. There is a "bleep" and the engine stops turning over.
GiveMeABreak....VIN No. is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]. Unfortunately I have no record of the fault codes, only the descriptions as listed in my original posting. I have had to return the Lexia Diagnostics as it was only borrowed, and owner needed it back.
mikeyb1949
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by mikeyb1949 »

Sorry Wheeler, only just read your post. I appreciate what you're saying, but what this doesn't explain is why the car was running OK on a daily 30 mile commute prior to it packing up. There is also a fuse in the under-bonnet fuse box which protects the in tank pump. When I remove this fuse, the primer bulb remains the correct size, but the engine still refuses to fire up.
mikeyb1949
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by mikeyb1949 »

Does this give anyone any ideas? When turning over, as in attempting to start, the rev counter does not register any movement. Could this be a sensor that has failed and telling the ECU to disable the car?
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

A definite possibility. What you should do is to get her onto a Lexia clone to see what error codes there are. There are forum members who have such a setup, and are willing to help other Forum members. Some of the members in the following list have 'gone quiet', so may not respond to a PM, but others are active and should reply;

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=56452
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So the engine is a DW10BTED4 on a C5 MKII 138.

No pump in tank, just gauge.
mikeyb1949
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by mikeyb1949 »

I'm sorry Marc, I'm really confused now. So what is causing fuel to flow out of the priming bulb each time I switch the ignition on if there's no pump? Mike.
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xantia_v6
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by xantia_v6 »

It appears that somebody has wrongly fitted a pump in the tank. How much service history doe you have for the car?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

mikeyb1949 wrote:
10 May 2019, 20:47
I'm sorry Marc, I'm really confused now. So what is causing fuel to flow out of the priming bulb each time I switch the ignition on if there's no pump? Mike.
Ok, so here is the Siemens Fuel Supply System: The Induction Transfer Pump is incorporated within the High Pressure Fuel Pump.

As Mike says - how long have you had it? If fuel is leaking from the priming pump, then it can only be coming from the fuel tank under higher pressure than normal (which it should not be), or pressure backflowing from somewhere....
DW10BTED4 Fuel Supply.PNG
ReferenceDesignation
1 to 4Diesel injectors (electrohydraulic)
5Fuel high pressure common injection rail
6High pressure fuel sensor
7Fuel temperature sensor
8Fuel cooler
9Manual fuel primer pump
10Water bleed screw + Bleed pipe
11Fuel filter + water in fuel separator
12Fuel heater (electrical)
13high pressure fuel pump
14Transfer pump (pre-supply)
15Fuel flow actuator
16High pressure fuel regulator on high pressure fuel pump
Key:
A - Fuel tank return circuit
B - Low pressure fuel circuit (negative pressure)
C - High pressure fuel circuit

Special features:
  • Fuel supply circuit with negative pressure: Induction by transfer pump (ITP) incorporated in the fuel high pressure pump (CRV)
  • Fuel heating function integrated in the fuel filter cover

This is the Fuel Circuit Operating Diagram
DW10BTED4 Fuel Supply B.PNG
(5) Fuel high pressure common injection rail.
(6) High pressure fuel sensor.
(13) high pressure fuel pump.
(14) Transfer pump (pre-supply) (ITP).
(15) Fuel flow actuator (VCV).
(16) High pressure fuel regulator on high pressure fuel pump (PCV).
(1) to (4) Diesel injectors.
" a" : Fuel inlet.
" b" : Return to fuel tank.
" c" : High pressure part of the fuel pump (HPP).
Transfer pump: Pressure limiter Calibration of the safety valve: 4 bars.
admiral51
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by admiral51 »

@ mikeyb1949

I could be wrong ( usually am lol ) but if you can get hold of the person you borrowed the lexia from they should be able to go into the history and recover the fault codes from your global/diagnostic session, should be recorded under the Vin#.
Gonna hide now as arrows and bullets will be coming my way
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

:rofl2:
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Failed to proceed!

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

admiral51 wrote:
10 May 2019, 21:50
@ mikeyb1949

I could be wrong ( usually am lol ) but if you can get hold of the person you borrowed the lexia from they should be able to go into the history and recover the fault codes from your global/diagnostic session, should be recorded under the Vin#.
Gonna hide now as arrows and bullets will be coming my way

As far as I know you are NOT wrong this time :D , but it does require (IIRC) that the trace was saved when the software was closed.