Head removal on XUD - points to take?

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chinkostu
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Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

So the Xantias let herself down and decided to stick oil into my nice new rad, matrix and the rest of the cooling system. I bypassed the oil cooler and flushed however there is still a lot of oil collecting, enough that my top hose was solid (think the stats jammed up with it as well)

I'm certain it's HGF, but looking around it seems to be a pig of a job getting the manifolds off? i'm not bothered if theres a way of doing it with the manifolds attached to the head still (as I can then check the turbo on the bench) but is there anything else I should pay attention to? I've seen you can undo the top engine mount and rock the engine forward but is that likely to cause issues if I leave driveshafts and any hoses connected?

Or is it worth borrowing an engine crane and taking the whole engine out in one go? although saying that i'd have all the ancillaries for the hydraulics to contend with!!

I do have access to a haynes but i'd rather not lean on the BOL except for torque measurements!

thanks in advance

Peter.N.
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by Peter.N. »

I haven't done a Xantia but I have an XM which has a similar engine and found that the easiest way is to take the head off complete with the manifolds as the bolts are almost impossible to undo in situ especially if they are rusty.

Disconnect the top engine mount and lean the engine as far forward as you can without breaking anything and that will give you a bit more room, disconnect the exhaust first. Disconnect the oil feed and return from the turbo, you should then be able to get the head off complete. Use a laminated steel gasket, I don't know if copper ones are still available as it was some years ago I did mine.

The head is quite heavy so you will probably need help with it, at least the XM one was but that was 12 valve.

Peter

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

Daft question, rocking it forward so it's at a diagonal, or tilting it so the engines more upright? I'm trying to plot out wheres best to start as I realise i need the cambelt covers off which requires removing the engine mount, so i'm best using the starter trick to remove the crank bolt before I do anything else?

Taking the head off with inlets attached is probably where i'll go as with the limited space I have it means I can spend less time on my back!

Edit: thinking about it, can the covers come off without removing the mount?

RichardW
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by RichardW »

I did a BX TD and removed the head with the turbo on - it's 'kin heavy and awkward; I wouldn't do it on my own / without a lift again!

I've got a feeling there is something about the Xantia manifold that means you have to remove it, but I could be wrong. Paul (citroenxm) is the man - he's done loads! If the covers are bolted on, then it's much easier to get them off with the mount off - you can always refit once the belt and cam sprocket are off.

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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by RichardW »

Info in here: https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 4&start=38

Inlet needs to come off, but exhaust and turbo can be left in situ if you can get the manifold studs out

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

borrow an engine crane... or buy one secondhand on a well known auction site and sell it when you're finished, hopefully for about the same as you paid.

The aggravation of having the lump out complete does not compare to the aggravation of trying to do it within the restrictions of the engine bay.

You might also give some thought whether or not you're gonna do the HG, or throw a good s/h lump in instead.

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

Excellent, cheers guys. Seems the hardest job is getting the manifolds off tbh.

On the note of engine out i'd agree except for then having more work removing shafts and the nest of hoses as the box needs to come out first if I remember right! But it could be useful for lifting the head!

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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

chinkostu wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:02
Excellent, cheers guys. Seems the hardest job is getting the manifolds off tbh.


That was my trials and tribulations which Richard linked to, some time ago now. Ended up taking the head off my "spares" xantia, to resurrect my road going Xantia which had snapped timing belt/camshaft and bent valve.

My introduction to this very forum, and very much a xantia novice at the time, and in awe of the assembled knowledge from the likes of Citronut (Malcolm)/Citroenxm(Paul)/CitroJim and many others who helped get me through the job to a successful conclusion.

The centre bolt of the inlet manifold was particularly awkward to remove, and I made quite a few schoolboy errors like using an imperial sized Allen Key to attempt to remove the inlet manifold bolts simply cos it removed the first one I tried. Once I got the right metric key managed to get the rest out. The exhaust manifold bolts filled me with fear of removal, but as Citrojim predicted they did not put up too much of a fight.

No you tube videos at the time, and none now, so if you video the job it could be an FCF Worldwide first.

Had I made a video of my job it would have lasted about 3 months!

Good luck, If I can help as you proceed I will

REgards Neil

PS I improvised this tool for removing the centre inlet manifold bolt
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
11 Oct 2011, 23:16
Masood

I removed the centre bolt from the inlet manifold by using the "tool" illustrated at the bottom of this picture.

Image

The gold coloured bit (next to the spanner) is a drain plug socket with one side cut off with a hacksaw. This has a 19mm hex on the main body and a square end which fits into a 1/2" to 3/8 drive adaptor, and then a 3/8 drive 13mm socket.

The socket fits over the centre bolt of the inlet manifold and you can get the 19mm spanner to act on the body of the gold drain plug socket.

The spanner pokes up enough, and is offset enough to avoid fouling on the inlet manifold. It works.

Hope this helps

kind regards

Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 04 May 2019, 08:43, edited 1 time in total.

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

Cheers guys, much appreciated! Is a deep 13mm 1/4 or 3/8 and a U/J worth trying?


Funny you mention filming it, I had an idea to VLOG it more for sanitys sake to watch back when trying to put it back together!!

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

From memory I think I resorted to the 19mm spanner and the convoluted drain-plug socket-adaptor-3/8 13mm socket etc arrangement because of the lack of space to get a socket ratchet between the bulkhead and the engine.

Regards Neil

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
04 May 2019, 08:40
From memory I think I resorted to the 19mm spanner and the convoluted drain-plug socket-adaptor-3/8 13mm socket etc arrangement because of the lack of space to get a socket ratchet between the bulkhead and the engine.

Regards Neil


Fair enough! My dad has a welder so can always sacrifice a socket and spanner and make a tool for it!

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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by aerodynamica »

Ditto what's been said already. Ive done this job 3 times now on Xantia XUD9 and it is quite involved.

I found the exhaust manifold the harder of the two to remove with some studs unwinding out the head instead of their nuts. Also have to be careful not to bend the oil pipe that feeds the turbo - I somehow managed to bend mine and it took - not kidding - 4 hours to refit it because I couldn't re bend it quite correctly again. I seem to remember the whole problem was caused by the order in which this pipe is removed i.e before or after the manifold is refitted. If you try to fit it after and it's bent..... well just dont.

Another thing I found awkward is the engine mounting lower casting with it's many 13mm bolts etc. If you're refitting it there's a bolt that is very hard to start threading because the thin metal plate that goes down the side of the block between the casting and the block can move slightly so that the holes don't line up fully. Again, I think it's avoided by fitting the mounting before the spring tensioner for the timing belt or vice-verse.. On the note of the spring tensioner... you have to make up the little bent plate with 2 thin bolts that Haynes mentions to hold the plunger of the tensioner in while fitting the mounting bolts. One end ot the plate has to have a slotted hole for the bolt or it's near impossible to get out again with the tensioner fitted.

It took me a full weekend to do the job beginning on Friday evening and finishing after a disaster on Sunday night..... not keen on doing that again..

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

Inlet is off, i ended up taking as much hose and pipework off as i could, fuel filter injector pipes etc and lying across the engine!

Managed to remove that hidden bolt with a lot of difficulty and various rachets sockets and extensions, but not easy at all and completely invisible from both sides, so a mirror helped!

The idea is to hopefully support the exhaust manifold and leave it attached to the exhaust as access to there is even worse! Theres not much space to loosen off the feed pipe from what I can see, is its path a bit convoluted or does it go into the back of the head?

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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by aerodynamica »

Oil feed pipe? it goes to a fitting on the block just below the manifolds - you can reach it from below (of course ensure the car is properly supported)

I think it is something like a 17mm pipe union nut - same at the turbo feed end too although it looks like they've used an adapter to fit to the turbo (mine is a KKK unit but my previous Xantia used a garret) and on mine the adapter began turning instead of the pipe union nut so I had to hold that with a different sized spanner. Just don't bend the oil feed pipe like I did as fitting it and reshaping it was a serious problem!

I think I eneded up bending the pipe because I lifted the head off with the exhaust manifold and turbo with the pipe still attached, in one go but opted to seperate them on the workbench. Actually ok to do that but I bumped it down on the pipe and bent it. then removed everything including that pipe without realising how much it had been bent. Forewarned is forearmed!!!

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chinkostu
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Re: Head removal on XUD - points to take?

Post by chinkostu »

KKK on mine as well G, thanks! Means I know where to look! Can you remember the size of the adaptor at all?

The inlet feels a bit oily so suspect the turbo seals dried up, so might end up doing the same as you as from what I can reach underneath theres bugger all room and looks an utter pig to separate. Does mean it's a properly heavy lump to pick up.