Mk2 1.9TD Xantia, Inlet manifold delays the head gasket job

masood_ilyas · Post by **masood_ilyas** » 10 Oct 2011, 07:37

My 2nd Xantia is a Mk2 1.9TD from 1999 with 154K on the clock,
Head Gasket on this one needs replacing as there is a serious oil leak from the head area, alas it is not the camshaft seals!. My last head gasket job was on a Mk1 about 8years ago and that was tough but in the end the manifolds did move.
I started the job thinking it would be hard but not impossible. Stripped as far as I could then hit an obstacle!. On this one with a redesigned Inlet manifold housing an EGR system I can not even get one or two nuts specifically the one in the middle, a resting place for the inlet manifold. I can not get any tool to access this nut. Is there a special technique for this one. I did a search but could not find any blow by blow sticky. Are there any alternative ways of getting this nut or the cylinder head out.

Best regards

Masood

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Oct 2011, 07:45

It's bloody difficult Masood

I've only done a MK1 with EGR and I'm sure the MK2 is similar. I have a horrible feeling I tried every 13mm thing I had until I found one that fitted. It might have been a crow's foot I used in the end...

So if you see any one-legged crows around you know why...

I might even have 'modified' a spanner or used a 1/4" drive socket or similar...

The old memory is packing up...

The one good aspect is you only have to loosen it as this bolt is in a slot..

The alternative, and it's sodding heavy, is to lift the head complete with manifolds although it's a good idea, if you can (can't exactly recall now), to split off the turbo itself...

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 10 Oct 2011, 07:53

its quite some time since i'v had it off (a XANT head that is as well

),

but is it not possible to unbolt the EGR valve to get more clearance,

regards malcolm

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Oct 2011, 08:03

Yea, it's a long time since I've had it off to Malcolm, hence the memory problems... It's been so long now...

Anyway, back to XUD heads...

citronut wrote:is it not possible to unbolt the EGR valve to get more clearance,

I don't think it'll help much, Masood is having a battle with the middle bolt and as far as I recall the EGR valve is well off to one said and apart from being a PITA, does not cause too many problems...

masood_ilyas · Post by **masood_ilyas** » 10 Oct 2011, 09:21

Thanks Jim and Malcom.
Oh dear this sounds like bad news. There was me thinking it would be a breeze, alas the only breeze are the howling ones outside almost lifting the bonet off the hinges.

The inlet manifold may be in the way of some of the head bolts so it may not be possible to remove CH with the manifold attached.
As I am working solo, this will also need hiring some lifting gear.

It may have to come to one suggestion on an old thread, using angle grinder to cut the manifold and replace with one from scrapyard! I hope not.
I will try some more 13mm tools. I saw one in halfrauds, a 13mm ratchet spanner with a hinge allowing some bending at the ring end, costing almost £10.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:13

Masood tip the engine forwards if you can.. exhaust flange off then jack under sump, remove upper left engine mount.. the engine will then be free ish to move forwards..(I use a scissor jack to keep it staying forwards) may just help access .,.

John

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:15

I've not done this job but I wonder whether removing some of the engine mountings may allow you to tilt the engine forward or back in order to improve access.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:36

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:45

Well Jim, you're the lucky one (edited - my quotes don't seem to work)

My memory's such I can't even remember it's been such a long time!

But, back to the XUD head, my tuppence worth, when I did my head 6 years ago:

As others suggest, jack/lift the engine. I released the bottom stabiliser on offside, and removed the offside mounting, jacking under the sump. Then pulled the top of the engine forwards by roping it to somewhere near the offside headlamp.

Contrary to what has already been said (and also in my Haynes), my manifold did not have a slot, and the nut (or was it a bolt?) bolt had to be removed. My records say I used 13mm socket on a short L shaped bar to remove it.

Good luck

[/quote]

Post by **RichardW** » 10 Oct 2011, 12:54

I've done it on a BX TD (the head gasket...

) taking it out in a oner - as Jim says it's 'kin heavy, but doable on your own (just). There was no way the manifold would have come off in situ on mine - it was almost impossible to remove on the bench!

masood_ilyas · Post by **masood_ilyas** » 10 Oct 2011, 16:46

Thanks every one,
What a waste of a day so far and now the weather elements against me. It is time for a tactical retreat and rethink, besides it won't be appreciated if of all days I didn't smarten up and take the wife out for a dinner today, it being our 23rd anniversary.

In order to remove it as a single unit, the turbo will come out too, so I am assuming I need to do the following:
1. disconnect the exhaust manifold from the cat, I see it is secured by two spring loaded bolts .
2. disconnect the oil feed from the main block to the turbo
3. Hope the inlet manifold does not obstruct and all the CH bolts can be undone (decreasing circles!) without warping.
4. Lift and seperate.

If you have spotted any howlers or omissions please let me know before I pick up the spanners in the morning.

Thanks

Masood

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 11 Oct 2011, 23:16

Masood

I removed the centre bolt from the inlet manifold by using the "tool" illustrated at the bottom of this picture.

The gold coloured bit (next to the spanner) is a drain plug socket with one side cut off with a hacksaw. This has a 19mm hex on the main body and a square end which fits into a 1/2" to 3/8 drive adaptor, and then a 3/8 drive 13mm socket.

The socket fits over the centre bolt of the inlet manifold and you can get the 19mm spanner to act on the body of the gold drain plug socket.

The spanner pokes up enough, and is offset enough to avoid fouling on the inlet manifold. It works.

Hope this helps

kind regards

Neil

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Oct 2011, 12:31

Good tip Neil, excellent

Another method might be to grind flats on a 13mm socket so that it can be turned with a spanner on the body of the socket...

I've used this approach to get at cooling fan motor nuts where clearance is tight between the fan cage and aircon condenser...

masood_ilyas · Post by **masood_ilyas** » 12 Oct 2011, 18:21

Thanks Neil and Jim.... unfortunately there isn't much space to use the adapters etc, it you see is a Mark2 there is just no way you could use a 13mm socket.

I did however have a eureka moment today,
when lying down flat on my back looking straight up in line with the drive shaft and the middle of the inlet manifold, there was a glimmer of hope of siding an open ended 13 spanner onto this bolt. after looking around at motor factors including halfrauds and other famous ones no one had a 30cm long reach spanner, not even Snap-on tools on the internet.
I decided it was worth a go at extending the reach with a mole grip pliers, here is what I used, also shows the hard to get bolt.
I have now reached a point where the inlet and exhaust mainfolds are free but sliding on the inlet studs as far as it goes, the inlet manifold will still not come out. No doubt with head bolts out and Cylinder head moved side ways it will drop, I am hoping!!.

On removing the cyinder head bolts counter clockwise from outwards to inwards I noticed what might have been the cause of the oil leak. All the bolts required effort and moved with the click sound, but not the rear one closest to the Camgear as shown here. I have still not taken the gasket out so might be pretty peaved to find it is intact and all this work could have been avoided by changing one bolt... but then again this is with hindsight!

In the confused state of creating space and access I removed this, but now it does not want to back, I suppose I will cross that bridge when I reassemble things together or is there more trouble waiting upstream for me.

After two days of uttering expletives and commenting on the out of wedlock parentage of the 13mm bolt, It is time now for the bruised nuckles to heal.

Thank you all, no doubt I will be back when I resume the job over he weekend.

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Oct 2011, 19:05

Well done Masood

Excellent work

Give yourself a big pat on the back

Now, on the stud clearance problem, there's two potential ways around this. One I have done on a 1.9TD and one I've only done on an Activa petrol engine..

The first method is to slide the manifold back on the studs and to extract the offending studs using the 'double nut' technique. To do this, get two thin nuts and lock them together on the end of the stud, you can then use a spanner on the one underneath and this, because the two nuts are locked, will allow the stud to unscrew out of the head. It's a bit tedious but it does work.

Else, the other way is to tilt the engine forward enough so that the manifolds clear the studs. The problem, as you may have seen, is that the engine naturally wants to tilt backwards. To really tilt it, disconnect the top RH engine mount and then use two jacks, one under the RH end on the sump and one on the back edge of the gearbox. In thjis way you can both lift and tilt so the manifolds just clear. Take care though to ensure, if you do this, that you don't strain the oil feed and return pipes to the turbo. Disconnect them if need be. As I say, thsi worked a treat on the Activa but it's untried on the 1.9TD...

Here's a picture of the two jacks in use:

On the lower engine mount not going back, remove the fork piece between the mount and the subframe and refit only when the engine is more or less back in position...