Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

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white exec
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Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

After having had two of the original Philips radio units fail with old age, I decided to replace it, and now have a new Sony CDX-G1302 radio/singleCD unit, which looks good, and works fine.

Have been trying to interface it to use the existing steering wheel controls, and the following kit has been recommended and is listed as dedicated to Y4 XM, 1994 onwards, with Sony units:
Audioleads PC99-X17

Am having numerous problems with it, as it is not properly recognising/responding to steering wheel controls, despite all the wiring having been checked out. Am in discussion with Audioleads (UK) about this.

Question, though: Has anyone successfully used one of these units to retain existing steering wheel controls?
The PC99-xxx family covers many vehicles, but -X17 is XM Y4 dedicated.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Doesn’t it state on the pack that it also requires a second adapter too?

I see this chap was doing the same with his Kenwood, but he notes and Insee on the Autoleads pack that it requires another connector. It seems his Part 2 video has gone AWOL, but is it possible this ,any be linked to your issue Chris?


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white exec
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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Thanks for the quick reply, Marc.
I watched that video a couple of days ago, and regretted Part 2 wasn't available.
I have the second part of the kit: it's just the dedicated 'patch' lead that connects to the HU's remote socket (a 3.5mm 3-pole jack, in Sony's case).

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Chris - it is important to connect up the leads in a certain order - always disconnect the quadlock from the head unit first which contains the power and then wait for a minute.

Then connect the patch lead to the head unit, then the interface leads and then finally the quadlock to the new interface leads that supply the power last of all. If power is connected whilst any of the other leads are not connected, the interface won't recognise what is connected and will send the wrong protocol out, resulting in nothing being recognised.

So I would disconnect the leads, wait for a minute, connect all the interface leads up ensuring the vehicle quadlock harness is connected last.

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white exec
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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Hi Marc,

That's interesting.
You're saying connect everything up first, and then connect the power-containing connector.
OK, follow that.

Autoleads fitting instructions say something a bit different - paraphrased, which I've followed:

1. Ensure IGN is off, and key removed from IGN.
2. Remove (old) HU, and confirm connectors match (which they do).
3. Connect the new HU to the PC99, and the patch lead to the module. Do not connect the patch lead to the HU at this stage.
4. Connect other connections. Important to make sure perm+ and ign+ are correctly connected (which they are).
5. Once ALL other connections have been made, turn on the IGN, and allow the HU to power up.
6. Manually tune the HU to a strong (radio) signal, and allow the RDS name to appear on the screen. Store this station in the memory of the unit. (done that)
7. Turn off the IGN and allow HU to shut down.
8. Whilst the unit is off, connect the patch lead to the HU (3.5mm jack).
9. Turn on IGN and test the function of the stalk (sic) controls - buttons in this case.

Doing all that allows just one SWC button to operate (MODE: CD/AUX/FM/USB...). All others are non-functioning or haphazard. Putting the Sony through its steering remote control "learning" routine doesn't help.

Happy to try your connection routine.
What do you reckon to theirs, Marc?

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white exec
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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Have just tried your suggested connection sequence, Marc, only connecting power when all other connections have been made.
Same result, I'm afraid - only Mode operates.

Tried then putting the HU through its button-learning routine. Only Mode and Seek+ successfully registered/learned. Error on all others. Afterwards, even those two had been forgotten.

Still awaiting clarification about the two bullet connectors. Have alerted the supplier of the kit that there are problems, and unit may have to be returned.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hmmm, I suppose it depends on the kit - I know that the connects 2 units are good quality ones, but I don't see one for the XM listed Chris unfortunately - but they do have a video sort of explaining what I was saying in my last post in case it helps clarify:



I realise this is talking about a CAN / LIN connection, which may not be applicable with the XM (I don't know what year or model / electronic architecture yours is as I don't have your VIN), but gives some idea of potential issues with connection order.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Thanks for that second video, Marc. Have had a look at Connect2's site, but (as you say) they don't list anything for XM.

Have made a small bit of progress, though.

Using your (and the online) advice of connecting everything from HU backwards, and ending up with power, I then tried to get the HU to recognise the SWC buttons. Using the default setting on the HU ("reset Custom"), I've actually managed to get the HU(with interface) to operate 4 of the 8 buttons (Back, Fwd, Mute, Mode), but it will not see the other 4 (Vol+, Vol-, Memo, Next).

Interestingly, the ones that work are all on one of the two control lines from the SWC, and the ones that don't are on the other. Both banks are sending the same resistance values to the Interface, so I may have a problem there - one set of controls is just not being seen; the patch lead does carry both lines to the interface.

I have also shot an enquiry off to Sony, to see what resistance values the new HU is expecting to see. The 3.5mm (3-pole) jack on its rear face is able to connect direct to "compatible" SWC's, so I need to know what those parameters are. The jack centre and tip both carry 3.3v when the unit is powered up, but I don't know whether those are two discrete channels, or what range of external resistance values they expect to see. I note that some vehicles have much higher values than the 0R, 120R, 340R and 1020R on the XM, and some vehicles operate with a single chain of resistors.
Gabor's 'ugly' SWC schematic - 2.jpg
Gabor's 'ugly' SWC schematic - 2.jpg (27.71 KiB) Viewed 572 times
1 - 12v+ / lights on
2 - control line 1
3 - Gnd
4 - control line 2

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Some real progress, and without having to use the (non-working) interface kit! :)

Sony customer support being quite useless at providing the required remote (steering wheel) control resistor values for the 3.5mm remote jack on the back of the radio.
Have finally managed to find that info online...
Sony HU remote resistor values.JPG
Have made up a bit of veroboard with some push-buttons and resistors, to test with the new Sony CDX-G1302 here, and now have proper control for
Vol+
Vol-
Mode/Source (radio, CD, USB...)
Mute
Seek+ (next)
Seek− (prev)
The other functions are not supported by this unit; the Memo and » (scan) buttons on the Citroen don't have equivalent functions either, so will be ignored.

Next job is to open up the steering wheel, and look at changing the original resistors for new ones.
The old Philips unit used a chain of 0R, 120R, 220R and 680R resistors, twice over, for SWC.

Getting there.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Well done Chris. It really is essential to have remote access to save eyes off road scenarios. Very odd that they have marketed an XM interface that doesn't seem to work though.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Success! \:D/

Opened up the steering wheel this afternoon, and fished out the small resistor p.c.b. tucked inside.
Finally decided not to modify it by way of changing its resistors, partly because doctoring it would be irreversible, also because it is rather miniature, and it's essentially built around the idea of two separate resistor chains and two output lines.

Opted simply to build another small board (same size, and the 5-way p.c.b. connector borrowed from the old one - easily unsoldered), on a piece of veroboard. A few recovered 4-way PC connectors were used to connect up the three sets of switches on the steering wheel. Each of the small switches has four connections: Gnd, Illumination, Output 1, Output 2.
The new board has to accommodate just the six new resistors in a chain, and the old p.c.b. connector.

The new Sony works on a single series chain of six resistors, with preferred values as in the document above.

Signal to radio/CD unit (3.5mm stereo jack; tip=signal, body=Gnd, centre band=NC)
|
2k2
|<----- Source (Mode) looking for 2k2
2k2
|<----- Att (Mute) 4k4
4k3
|<----- Seek+/Next (>>|) 8k8
3k3
|<----- Seek-/Prev (|<<) 12k
4k7
|<----- Vol+ 16k8
6k8
|_ <----- Vol- 23k6

All original parts have been preserved, in case anyone ever wants to revert to original equipment.

Autoleads, nul points. Sony customer support, nul points.
But real thanks to Marc for all the helpful hints! O:)

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by Michel »

Excellent work Chris, a very informative and useful thread!

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by Michel »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
26 Jan 2019, 17:22
Well done Chris. It really is essential to have remote access to save eyes off road scenarios
.

How on earth did you manage up until about 1990 when the first wheel controls appeared? :rofl2:

I don't like them. I find them more hassle than they're worth. C4 VTS, Grand Picasso, my late father's Merc.. just too many buttons! My Skoda bas one round knob on the head unit. It's all I need and I know where it is.

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by white exec »

Some radios are so far out of line of sight (while driving), that looking at them is positively dangerous! XM a good example of this, with radio right down at tunnel level, just ahead of the gear lever. No such problem in many modern vehicles, where a full-colour, wide-screen, multi-function display at the top of the dash couldn't possibly distract the driver! [-X [-X [-X

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Re: Radio/CD update for Citroen XM

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Easy - the GS had the radio in the centre console, so didn’t have to reach, and as for those early ones, well there wasn’t anything to worry about as it was radio and cassette!😀 So no SD cards, CDs jukebox AUX, DVD sources to worry about Mike.

Anyway being a bit of a geek, I do admit to using the voice control a lot of the time as it can do just about anything I want for all audio sources and phone functions, including telling it what radio station, track or source I want, plus navigation, so got it covered 😎

The only thing I'm working on is having it order my Cheese Quarter Pounder, with no green pickles and extra cheese after it gets me to the drive thru :-D