c5 2009 2.0 hdi

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Grahambeveridge225
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c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Grahambeveridge225 »

hey guys, my c5 if i floor the car joining a motorway my car hesitates at 3 4000 rpms and kind of goes back to normal when i pull back a bit. got a code 0087 which i know isnt a known code. i reset the light and drive as normal but now and again i can feel it pulling back. any clues where i should look first?

kind regards
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If it's a P0087 code then yes, that is a valid code for your engine Graham :-D

Basically it's the high pressure fuel regulation: the measured rail pressure is too low in relation to the set point.
The ECU detects a difference of 180 bars to 250 bars for 3 to 6 seconds between the rail pressure set point and the measured rail pressure.

These are the symptoms:
  • Jerking/stalling
  • Diesel fuel consumption a bit higher
  • Fluid leak/smells (diesel fuel, oil, etc.)
  • Lack of power
  • Starting problem
Conditions for clearing the fault involve driving for 5 minutes with several full load accelerations for 10 seconds.

The following 'downgrade modes' can be present when the fault is active:
  • Deactivation of processing of the accelerometry
  • Deactivation of the speed limiter
  • Deactivation speed limiter until the next time the ignition is switched on
  • Deactivation of the cruise control
  • Deactivation cruise control until the next time the ignition is switched on
  • Request for Delayed Engine Stop
  • Deactivation of the accelerometry strategies
These are the suspect areas:
  • Engine ECU (Software not up to date)
  • Poor fuel or polluted fuel (petrol, deposit, etc.)
  • Problem on the fuel low or high-speed circuit (hose, tank, diesel fuel filter, etc.)
  • Fuel injector
  • Electrical harnesses
  • Connectors
  • High pressure fuel pump
  • Fuel pressure sensor
So it might be worth getting the dealer to check if the engine ECU software is up to date. Avoiding supermarket fuels is another recommendation.
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Paul-R
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Paul-R »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
27 Dec 2018, 02:02
So it might be worth getting the dealer to check if the engine ECU software is up to date. Avoiding supermarket fuels is another recommendation.
I really must question this oft repeated advice Marc.

Disregarding "premium" or "special" grades of fuel there really is no difference between supermarket and branded fuels. There can't be otherwise they wouldn't meet the minimum standards that all fuel has to reach. Of course, the fuel could be a bad batch with water or other contaminant in it but that is not something that would exclusively happen to supermarket fuel.

I have used supermarket fuels almost exclusively for at least 40 years and I can honestly say that I've never had a problem that I could put down to having filled up at a supermarket. Even when I wasn't paying for the fuel myself some 25 years ago I remained faithful to the supermarkets.

Some interesting reading here, especially the comment at the bottom from David Mills.

https://www.petrolprices.com/news/super ... nded-fuel/
Hell Razor5543
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Remember all the problems about 10 years ago with cars that stopped working? It turns out the fuel supplied to Tesco had somehow become contaminated, and the results coated the Lambda sensor, which stopped it (and then the engine) from working.

http://tesco-complaint.blogspot.com/200 ... on-o2.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Unit ... tamination
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Paul-R
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Paul-R »

Well, as I said that's a contaminant not a continuous condition.

I don't actually remember this event, possibly because it took place in the SE and also because I've been a diesel man for the past 25 years!
Grahambeveridge225
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Grahambeveridge225 »

This car is killing me. Why can't it be an easy fix for anything 😂😂😂
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Well I can only speak from experience and have used Shell and Gulf premium fuels without incidence and the premium fuels have additional cleaners in that it saves using a separate fuel system cleaner and of course with higher octane (petrol) or Cetane (diesel) your car is running better and will get more MPG (depending on other factors of course).

Yes, fuels have to meet the standards, but hey, Singapore Airlines or Easy Jet? Your choice.
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Paul-R
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Paul-R »

I'm not disagreeing about the premium fuels, in fact I started off by saying Disregarding "premium" or "special" grades of fuel there really is no difference between supermarket and branded fuels. I was talking about standard fuels. In fact I didn't realise that you meant premium fuels.

It's worth pointing out that some supermarkets also offer premium alternatives, not that I go for those either. Would you place these in the supermarket don't touch category? And thinking further, do you also decry standard branded fuels? I'm unclear about that.
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I regularly use Shell V-Power or Gulf Super Diesel as the more expensive super diesel will feature chemicals in the mixture which are designed to loosen soot deposits and other oily crud from within the engine's fuel system. I fill up say every third to fourth tankful with super diesel and the other times with branded fuel. I will not use supermarket fuels unless in an emergency.

That's my choice, but although the base fuel may be the same at the refineries, the specific additives / premium additives are added separately as far as I can tell. Although the injection ECU can adjust the settings based on the fuel and air, to my mind having the system run cleaner has to be better in the long run. But each to their own; many will swear supermarket fuels are fine - which of course they do meet the same minimum standards, but there are plenty of people who say that rough running is cured shortly after switching to better premium fuels.
Grahambeveridge225
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Grahambeveridge225 »

Am I looking at a big bill again guys or could it be something really minor. Or will I just burn it 👌
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would start with the easier things:

Basically it is saying that the fuel pressure is too low to meet the demand. The Engine ECU will then limit the power until the fault is corrected - which is probably why your revs will be limited around the 3000 mark whilst the fault is in existence. It may be something as simple as a blockage in the fuel system or that your fuel filter needs changing...

Try getting some Diesel fuel system treatment in there for the next few tankfuls and let that get to work on cleaning the fuel components.

Or it could be the fuel pressure sensor. See my previous post on this specific sensor which is attached to the fuel rail.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60809&p=596103#p584615

That post has the part and cost which is the same as your engine. Again, there are several suspect areas, of which this in only one, so it may be cheaper to get it to Citroen, tell them the diagnostic code you have, and ask them to check if the software is up to date or not while they are running diagnostics. It could save money in the long run by not sequentially changing parts. They may have a better indication of the issue from dealing with this engine over many models Graham.
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Does this model of C5 have a pressure regulator? If it does, I wonder if that could be at fault. I remember reading of issues with the HDi engine that have been caused by the regulator getting blocked.
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes it does James, but another expensive part at around £145 just for the sensor at the dealer and similar prices for the Delphi unit aftermarket - so another reason that the diagnosis needs to be accurate to be honest.

Item (1)
X7 Fuel Pressure Regulator..PNG
Grahambeveridge225
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Re: c5 2009 2.0 hdi

Post by Grahambeveridge225 »

Thanks for all your help guys