xsara picasso 03 -plate

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picassodad
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xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

Admin still has the chassis number etc., please can you advise......

xsara picasso 03 plate 1.8 dohc petrol.

Non Starter.

This car has s been a bit sluggish at whizzing the engine over since the lad has had it but it has always started. The main battery leads where looked at and all seemed ok, was unable to test the battery as the lad uses it for work.

However, and this may be the clue.......it is parked facing down hill on a 10 degree ish hill and has refused to start on saturday. It has done this maybe twice before but eventually started.

This time it just refuses to start.

We leaded on with a slave battery on sunday but no go.

We fitted a known good battery and the starter whizzes the engine over a bit faster, but still no go.

It seems to want to start and did run of a second then died.

It seem to be firing on one cylinder but will not start.

The good battery is back on charge and we will try again this afternoon.

!. Does this car have the collision switch and where is it please ? We suspect its the same type as the pug 306 with the red rubber top, the same as on his now scrapped ( why did we scrap that car, but whats done is done ) Mondeo.

2. Does this car have the double relay and where is that please. Again we know what it looks like but cannot find it. The haynes manual shows it on the ecu plate but its not there.

3. WTF is the obd port, we know what that looks like but cannot find that either. It should be by the cabin fuse box ?

I have the Clarke diagnostic hand held unit so may be able to get a code etc.. Can the pp2000 interface be used for the picasso and can i get the software, laptop running xp.

The haynes manual for this car ( 2000 to 2002 which seems to be the correct one ) shows these parts fitted according to the wiring diagrams which we hope are correct, as the starter wiring diagram seems a bit confusing, the energiser wire for the solenoid, maybe that diagram has been wrongly drawn ??

Also what size socket is needed for the spark plugs please.

The coil pack was removed and inspected, which looks ok. Would anyone have primary and secondary resistance values for this coil pack please, and, in the middle of the coil pack upper, there is a window in the plastic with a bare metal track visible, would this be a test point for 12v??

Since the car is on a hill front down hill, would anything electronic living under the false floor get flooded ?

The car does not seem to be misting up and the scuttle water drain where ok, but it may have water in the car, we have not checked yet.

ALL HELP GREATLY appreciated as he needs the car to get to work, and, ours is off road at the moment as the clutch cable broke one mile form home on saturday night when we picked him up from his works bash, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, grrrrrrrrrr, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Its is said problems come in 3's so whats next i wonder.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

3. WTF is the obd port, we know what that looks like but cannot find that either. It should be by the cabin fuse box ?
A picture or a Vid is worth a thousand words, so the diagnostic port is located here:

I have the Clarke diagnostic hand held unit so may be able to get a code etc.. Can the pp2000 interface be used for the picasso and can i get the software, laptop running xp.
PP2000 is for Peugeot vehicles - Lexia is used for Citroen and your Picasso. These are included as part of the Diagbox software if you have that installed.
The haynes manual for this car ( 2000 to 2002 which seems to be the correct one ) shows these parts fitted according to the wiring diagrams which we hope are correct, as the starter wiring diagram seems a bit confusing, the energiser wire for the solenoid, maybe that diagram has been wrongly drawn ??
Haynes wiring diagrams are often wrong - there are so many variations depending on options fitted. I will have a look at the starting circuit if that's what you need and pop up the diagram in a later post.

Have you also considered a poor fuel pump?.... Does it start any better if left on a flat spot?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here's the Starting Circuitry Diagram:

As always, the key to the components is on our Wiki site: Just go to the relevant section - the numbers are in ascending order. 1010 is the starter to get you going :-D

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/wiki/Elect ... ring_Codes

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picassodad
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

Thanks mark, i will print the diagram off for future ref. Any luck with the coil pack resistance values and spark plug hex sizes please??

Will hunt for the obd socket, the double relay ( is that fitted to this car ? ) and the collision switch ( is that fitted to this car please, twill be difficult to find if its not fitted, lol ) .

Car stuck on drive pointing down hill with half a tank of petrol, Tank pump heard running for a few seconds when ign turned on. When the pug is fixed ( new cable arrives tommorrow then the fun of fitting it, but have to winch the pug under the car port so not in rain, oh what joys ) and working again the picasso can be towed and then winched under car port. The picasso at the moment is at the lads place, a good walk from my home and shed.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

Its reasonably dry today, and hopefully tomorrow as well, so can attend to one poorly fitted main earth connection on the engine ( its not sitting on the engine ( gearbox ) raised section properly but cocked over somewhat ) , The amin earth form engine to body does not look fantastic either, as well as the 2 earths behind the abs pump unit.

Could you please post the diagram showing all earth points and locations for me please, as it would save a lot of time.

Not sure about diagbox, if its on the computer, will check. I have a friend with a delphi diagnostic but cannot now contact him or search for him as the pug is off road at the moment.

All help greatly appreciated !
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

One more thing for today, the tubes that the plugs are in, are the tubes pressed into the head or do the plugs hold them in place please? Manual not too clear on that at all. One plug ht connection has an oily end, the tube may have oil in it perhaps?? will use a mirror to look see before we remove the plugs for checking.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here you go:

Image

-MC10 front left earths
MC11
-MC20 front right earths (front wing inner panel)
MC25
-MC31 front left earths (dashboard)
MC32
MC33
MC36
-MC34 centre console earths (dashboard)
MC35
-MC40 front right earths (dashboard)
-MC45 front LH seat crossmember earths
-MC56 front RH seat crossmember earths
-MC60 left rear earths
-MC70 right rear earths
-MC90 front left earths
MC91
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The plugs can be seen below - item 3 are the extensions.

I have no idea regarding hex sizes though for these, but would expect them to be pretty standard, (but don't quote me on that)!
Xsara Picasso 18 Plugs and Coil.PNG
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by wheeler »

if the car has com2000 (radio controls on a separate stalk next to the steering wheel & not on the actual steering wheel) the it wont have an inertia switch or a separate double relay. I would imagine yours being a 03 it will be a com2000 model. The double relay on this model is an integral part of the under bonnet fusebox.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Its a 2002 model and doesn't have stalk mounted controls.
picassodad
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

The haynes manual shows the double relay mounted on the ecu carrier, but we could not find it. It may have been remounted elsewhere but close due to wire lengths.

We found the obd port exactly where you showed it, thanks thanks thanks.

We connected the clarke diagnostic which showed no codes or faults. I dont completely trust this diagnostic box as the first one they sent me was "faulty", with the replacement acting in a simialr way, but no codes found.

The only things we have done is to replace the battery that came with the car for the known good fully charged mondeo battery, and cleaned as best as possible the eyelet connections to the battery positive under bonnet "bridge" connection and its posts.

The lad fitted the mondy battery when I was out and went thru the "procedure" and "key matching" procedure. He said it started and ran for about 2 seconds then stopped.

I went to his later.

Again it started, running on 4 for about 2 seconds.

Anyways after a rest period for the battery, its seemed to start and keep running after a little miss firing, but cleared and ran on 4 until normal running temps on a fast idle.

The charging system seems to be working all ok, but I suspect my dmm has "drifted" somewhat and showed just over 15v, and dropping. The cream had been taken from the mondy battery with a bit of cranking so the alternator may have been working overtime for a little while.

When normal engine temp he turned the engine off, counted to 100 and restarted. It started straight away after say 2 compressions.

We had a short run to mine to take the tools and battery home etc..

He went home and parked the car in the same place.

After 2 hours or so, he re started the engine, it started straight away he says, and ran it till normal running temp.

At 7:30 this morning the car started straight away. He drove to work. He said the sterio volt meter settled at about 13.5 volts ish.

It runs and seems to start ok, but I feel we are mearly in a forest clearing at the moment rather than well out of the woods.

I will be getting the car ( as long as it dont conk again ) saturday evening for an oil flush and oil and filter change. Sunday a new fuel filter and hopefully plug inspection/change. I also need to attend to the earths, the incorrectly fitted main earth and its body connection, and the 2 dodgy ish looking earths behind the abs pump, and, add an extra heavy engine earth to body. I will have to find the engine earth on the l/h/side but now have the earth location diagram. Thank you thank you thank you.

I will be e mailing a box of jelly babies to you as a thank you. I cant thank you enough really.

I think the lad will be getting in contact with his thanks as well.

WhilsT I have the car i intend to measure the coil pack resistances and find out via the dmm if the window and visible track in the middle of the coil pack is a 12v test point.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

We dont have a full service history for this car which has now just past 100k miles. I suspect it may have had a cam belt failure in the past as the main earth connection of the gearbox has not been fitted correctly, its cocked over, and, the lambda semsor lead in that area is dangling down and getting tangled wioth the gear selection stuff in that area. I thing the sensor wire is all ok but need to check and cable tie up out of the way.

The rear cam housing has been off i think as there is black sealer between it and the head.
I will get a mirror down that area and have a good look, also down the plug metal "tubes" as the no1 cylinder plug ( g/box end ) rubber foot has oil on it. It may be full of oil??

I will report back when done, probably xmas eve. If not have a great xmas one and all and all the very best for the new year. Thank you thank you thank you french car forum.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No problems Rich. Keeping fingers crossed for you.

Nadolig Llawen
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by picassodad »

Croesor. nadolig llawen i chi hefyd.

Just thinking ( clutch cable for the pug did'nt arrive ) , the lad has brimmed the tank before now usually to the first auto pump stop, and no fuel leakage has been seen or noticed.

The tank does not have a drain, and I assume the fuel pick up in the tank is in a well just like the mondy, centrally depressed in the tank floor again just like the mondy.

Is the fuel pump centraly mounted in the tank or is it near the front of the tank ?

If its near the front of the tank, and parked on a hill ( half tank of fuel so should be ok ) and has water in it, the water would end up in the fuel rail??

Just a thought.........no fuel seen overflowing as it where so no holes in the fuel pipe to fuel cap, so no water getting in.

I have a new fuel filter to fit this weekend and will carefully inspect for water in it, i will also cut the filter open and inspect the actual filter inside.

Grasping at strws a bit since no trouble codes seen and the mil light stays off once its gone off.

I think the lad fills up at the same places as he did with the mondy and that had no water or crap in the tank.
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Re: xsara picasso 03 -plate

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so here's the pump (in tank).
Picasso Dad Fuel Pump.PNG
Here's the actual fuel components diagram for you: That double relay you were talking about earlier would seem to be item 10

Click Diagram to enlarge
PicassoDad Fuel A.PNG
RefDescriptionRefDescription
(1) Engine Management ECU With ’FRIC’(20) Canister Reservoir
(2) Canister Discharge Electrovalve(21) Fuel Filter
(3) Throttle Butterfly Housing(22) Downstream Oxygen Sensor
(4) Idling Regulation Stepper Motor(23) Upstream Oxygen Sensor
(5) Diagnostic Connector(24) Air Pump
(6) Inlet Air Temperature Sensor(25) Injector Supply Rail
(7) Throttle Housing Heating Element(26) Petrol Injectors
(8) Throttle Potentiometer(27) Inlet Air Pressure Sensor
(9) Injection Ignition Test Warning Lamp(28) Coolant Temperature Sensor
(10) Engine Management Multifunction Double Relay(29) Engine Speed Sensor
(11) Battery(30) Tachometer
(12) Air Conditioning Relay(31) Electric Cooling Fan Unit
(13) Inertia Switch(32) Knock Sensor
(14) Vehicle Speed Sensor(33) Air Inlet Valve
(15) Power Steering Pressure Sensor(34) EGR Solenoid Valve
(16) Body Computer (CPH)(35) Camshaft Position Sensor
(17) Fuel Pump And Gauge Assembly(36) Ignition Coil
(18) Fuel Tank(37) Sparking Plugs
(19) Fuel Pressure RegulatorBlankBlank
* FRIC: Cooling function incorporated within the Engine Management System.


Ignition System
ReferenceComponentmakeReferenceRemarks
37Sparking plugsSAGEMRFN52HZElectrode gap : 1 mm
37Sparking plugsBOSCHFR8LMETightening torque : 2,5 daNm
36Ignition coilSAGEMBBC2.2ND.E
2 526 118
4-way black connector
Twin static type ignition

Fuel System
ReferenceComponentmakeReferenceRemarks
-Recommended fuel--95 RON or 98 RON premium unleaded petrol
19pressure regulatorWEBERRPM 84Pressure: 3,5 bars
Fixing: Incorporated in the fuel pump and gauge assembly
Location: On the fuel return circuit
26Petrol injectorSAGEM-2-way black connector
12,2 ohms
2canister discharge electrovalveBOSCH-Location: Front RH wing
18Fuel tankPLASTIC OMNIUM-Capacity = 58 litres
20Canister reservoirPURFLUXAVE 20Location: Under the front RH wing
21Fuel filterBOSCH0 450 902 161Fixing: On the fuel tank
21Fuel filterPURFLUXEP 145The arrow, on the filter, indicates the direction of the fuel flow
21Fuel filterKNECHTKL 72-138 -
17Fuel pump and gauge assemblyMARWAL09 73 068 99 00Electric pump submerged in the tank;Voltage: 12 Volts;Pressure: 3,5 bars

Electrical Circuit
ReferenceComponentmakeReferenceRemarks
1Engine Management ECU With ‘FRIC’SAGEMS2000;Emission Control;L4"Flash" Type EPROM (Reprogrammable EPROM)
"Sequential" Injection
84 Way Connector
13Inertia SwitchFIRST INERTIA SWITCHType 5053-Way Black Connector;
Location: On The Front Right Hand Wheel Arch
Can Be Manually Reset If The Cut-Off System Is Activated
28Coolant Temperature SensorELECTRICFIL
DAV
14 43 32
402 244 03
Green 2-Way Connector
Fixing: On The Coolant Outlet Housing
Reference Collar: Yellow
Tightening Torque: 1,8 Danm
32Knock SensorSIEMENSF 207 3262-Way Black Connector
Fixing: On The Front Of The Cylinder Block
Imperatively Observe The Tightening Torque: 2 ± 0,5 Danm
8Throttle PotentiometerCTSNTPS 23-Way Black Connector
Location: On The Throttle Housing
6Inlet Air Temperature SensorMAGNETI
MARELLI
IAT S042-Way Grey Connector
Fixing: On The Throttle Housing
10Engine Management Multifunction Double RelayBITRON240 10915-Way Black Connector
Location: On The Engine ECU Mounting
14Vehicle Speed SensorSAGEM
EATON
2 517 606 3A
192 033
Bonnet Locking 3
Fixing: On The Gear Box Differential Housing
29Engine Speed SensorELECTRICFIL14 43 272-Way Black Connector
Fixing: On The Clutch Housing
15Power Steering Pressure SensorBITRON280 2912-Way Blue Connector
Tightening Torque: 2 Danm
Fixing: On The HP Power Steering Pump Output Pipe
35Camshaft Position SensorELECTRICFIL14 43 233-Way Grey Connector
Fixing: To Cylinder Head

Induction Circuit
ReferenceComponentmakeReferenceRemarks
33Inlet air pressure sensorBOSCH0 261 230 0343-way grey connector (SICMA 2);Incorporated into the inlet manifold
4Idle regulation stepper motorMAGNETI
MARELLI
B 134-way black connector
Fixing: On the throttle housing
3Throttle butterfly housingMGIThe throttle housing contains: Inlet air temperature sensor
Throttle potentiometer
Stepper motor