C15d champ injector pump help please.

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swamps
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C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

Hello good people of FCF.
i have been lurking the boards here since i got my beloved C15d champ 1.8 '94 back in september as i had fancied swapping the lucas pump over to a bosch so i could run veg oil as a fuel source ,unfortunately be the cheap skate that i am i started running her on SVO and everything was fine.....UNTIL the recent cold snap where i killed the pump #-o
So far i have drained the oil out and filled her with diesel then dragged her around the countryside in 2nd/3rd gear for a mile or so to pull the diesel , but she still wouldn't fire! so i cracked a injector and turned her over till i nearly killed the battery , but no fuel came out at all, leading me to think that the injection pump is dead !
this is all the info i have managed to find out to date, and please dont be fooled into thinking i know what i'm talking about as i have know idea :rofl2: i only passed my test in september and this is my first car/van and know nothing about mechanics .
it is a lucas pump R8443B930A or maybe a 8443B930A that fits a XUD 7 (161a maybe ?) 60 hp 44kw 1.8 from 1994/3
my question is , can i use a different lucas pump ? as i am having huge trouble finding one i am also aware that i can find one on old 205's , i read somewhere on here i think that some one was retro fitting a 1.9 onto a 1.8 ? is this doable ?
If i have to pay £300 for a pump then i would rather go with a bosch but can not find out what the equivalent is for my locas, and dieselbob told me that i would need the cradle, injectors, lines and gear/fly wheel thingy ?

any and i mean any input or help would be amazing.

And sorry that my first post through the door is to come here cap in hand and beg for help, i just have ran out of option and can not afford to have her towed to a garage to to have diagnostics done , to be fair i can't afford the pump let alone paying some one to fit it.

again many thanks

Brian
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myglaren
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by myglaren »

Welcome Brian.

I have no idea but someone will soon.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@myglaren thanks buddy :)
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Sorry to hear that, but given the age, you won't get anything in the way of electronic diagnostics I'm afraid as it's a little too old for that.

I'm sure some of the revered grease monkey gurus on the Forum will be able to suggest something, but I suspect that apart from smelling of fish & chips, the fuel lines and filter may be gunked up too and need cleaning.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

thanks buddy, i only managed about a 100 miles or so on the SVO before i broke it :)
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white exec
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by white exec »

Was the SVO filtered and clean, or did it contain sludge? If mucky stuff, the tank must come out and be thoroughly cleaned.

If reasonably clean, first step would be to fill up with a quarter of a tank of regular diesel, rock the car about hatd from side to side to get it washing around the tank, and then try to draw it through the pipework from the engine compartment.

Do this first just before the fuel filter, until it comes through easily and clean.
Then examine the fuel filter: if it's a Purflux filter, it will have not just the main paper element (renew that) but also a very fine gauze or porous metal microfilter under the output banjo bolt. Clean this/these. Under the input banjo, you may find two very small non-return valves; make a note of which was these are fitted, and remove and clean them.

Next, use the priming button on the filter to make sure diesel will pump out of the filter without a problem. Note that on diesels, there is no pump in the tank (like petrol cars) but that the injection pump (and the priming pump in an emergency) actually sucks fuel from the tank.

Finally, turn attention to the injector pump. If you are very lucky, the blockage will have occurred before it, and not in it. Take off one of the four feed pipes going between pump and injectors, and try priming the filter button repeatedly to force some diesel into ne through the pump. You may or may not be able to get any through.

Next, reconnect the feed pipe, and prime the filter button until the button goes more or less solid. Warm up the injector pump with a hairdryer or fan heater so it's quite warm (to thin any SVO still in it), and then try startung the engine, while priming the button on the filter as you do so. Might be a good idea to have a second good battery (or jump-start vehicle) connected up, in case starting is prolonged.

If it fires up, run it until hot, and put a good few miles on it to flush things through. If it doesn't start, then you will ned to strip the pump (better to have it overhauled) or replace it.

When it is finally starting and running ok, and the tank needs refilling, do this with regular diesel and a 1:200 dose of either Miller's Diesel Power Plus, or Wynn's Diesel Fuel Treatment, and again replace the paper filter in the filter unit.

When satisfied that it's operating normally, again replace the paper filter element.

Finally, don't do any of this again. These are classic and splendid engines, the XUD's, and hugely economical to run. Just stick to standard diesel (but NOT supermarket/budget quality), with maybe a 1:1000 addition of either the Miller's or Wynn's above, if you fancy some smoother running and a bit more low-down torque.

Good luck; we all have to learn somehow!
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

hahahahahah , i know right. i have so learnt my lesson!
thank youfor your reply chris , i did clean the filter as best i could and pumpd diesel into it and the syphened it off a couple of time, i have heard people talk about banjos but im still unsure what they are! when i disconnected the first injector and tried to turn her over , nothing came out! not a drop!
should i need a new pump , is there anyway i can use one with a different part number so long as it has the same 1.8d 60hp 44kw as the one i have as i am having trouble finding one.
I will google images the banjo and see if i can locate it.
Again many many many thanks for your help
Brian
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

A Banjo bolt is a hollow bolt used to allow fluid to pass through it. Typically it connects a pipe to a housing of some sort. The following link is an example of such;

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/goodridge- ... &gclsrc=ds

You would have a pipe that ends in a large (comparatively speaking) round fitting, which the banjo bolt passes through, which not only secures the pipe but also allows the fluid to pass through.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@Hell Razor5543 thats awesome thank you so much
MikeT
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by MikeT »

Jim's the Lucas pump expert but I think he'll agree it's simply too delicate to deal with a thicker fuel like veg oil and will kill it quicker than you can say MaccyD's, I'm afraid.

I've heard of Bosch conversions being popular for the very reason you want one and they'll happily drink the chippy oil all year round, saving heaps of money so worth doing if you can.
As for which model of pump to go for, I can't advise unfortunately. Yes, you'll need all the parts you mention so ideally you want to find a scrapper donor where you can take all you need for pretty much the same price.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

thanks miket , i will settle for any pump right now as she is my only mode of transport and really need her back on the road.
i could only find the two bangos, on feeding into the pump next to the solinodie and one coming out the pump feeding the return, i took the both off and had a look and see , and both apeer to have diesel in them. any other pointers would be awesome.

thanks
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moizeau
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by moizeau »

Take the stop solenoid out of the pump, it's the big bolt with 1 or 2 wires going into it. Disconnect the wires to remove it. Try and prime the pump, does any diesel come out of the hole where it should be? If it does then test the solenoid (reconnecting it first) by turning the ignition on and off, the plunger on the end should move. Don't take the rubber boot off the solenoid, there is a spring inside that will make a bid for freedom. You may have gunged the solenoid up so it won't open, or the rubber boot may be stuck in the pump and not on the end of the solenoid

Did the car stop whilst driving or wouldn't start the next time you came to it?
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white exec
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by white exec »

There are a good few folk here who know the C15D in detail, so I tried my best on a general check-through, which you've obviously done much of already.

If your fuel filter is like this one, a Purflux (it may not be)...
C15D Purflux filter.JPG
...the banjo bolts (input and output) are ##12, and the micro-filter/non-return valve is under one of them at #16.

Click on diagram to enlarge.
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admiral51
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by admiral51 »

Hi Brian and welcome to the FCF family.
Sorry i cannot help with your issues, apart from cheering from the sidelines and searching the tinterweb for a fuel pump for you but as you state they are like hens teeth :(
Just had to check and my first post some 11 years ago was also cap in hand for advice, you are not alone and i too was/am a novice in mechanics and tech but still i dabble.
Colin
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van ordinaire
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

While I wouldn't argue with any of the advice offered I do wonder if the veg oil is the problem, given that you only drove 100 miles. I did several long runs on 30% veg before I learnt that, as mine has a Lucas pump I shouldn't.

If you DO need another pump you could try Northampton Vehicle Recycling - as I have known them have as many as 4 C15's otherwise I think you will have to look at/for a different donor vehicle. Mind you, you can still pick up a C15 for less than £300.