Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

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drAnte
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Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

Hi all. I have read all topics on c5 mk1 automatic gearbox problem, and so far did not find answer (although have found some good advices).

Here is my problem. When i start my car i can drive it for few minutes then it just stop, engine is running but gerbox is dead. After 10min. waiting i can drive it again for few minutes more.

I know that engine and gearbox share same cooling system, bit does engine problem, let's say rail problem affect gearbox?
Does someone know what can this be? Or what can i do? I have Lexia and according to this site https://www.autodna.com/vin/VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] my gearbox typ is 4HP20 (as i have read better option is AL4).

Any help would be appriciated.

Regards,
Ante
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xantia_v6
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by xantia_v6 »

I can't remember seeing anyone here with those symptoms on a 4HP20. The first thing I would try is disabling the transmission ECU by removing the fuse, or unplugging the ECU. This will force the transmission into hydraulic-only limp mode. In this mode the transmission only has 3rd and reverse gears, but if it still stops driving after a few minutes, the you will definitely know that it is a hydraulic/mechanical failure, not the electronics.

I can imagine that the symptoms you report could be caused by a loss of hydraulic pressure, perhaps caused by blockage of the transmission oil filter. How many km has the car travelled?
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

The car have 200k miles.
I have find this Citroën manual. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www ... l0BkHlUR9T

Thank you for quick reply.
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xantia_v6
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by xantia_v6 »

That is a good document (which I have not read for a while), but on P208 it says:
2 - Faults requiring the transmission to be removed and replaced
  • Vehicle no longer driven in forward nor reverse gears.
  • Oil level correct, the vehicle does not move, selector in position D-3-2-1.
  • Oil level correct, slipping when moving off, selector in position D, noise in
    reverse gear.
  • When warm, no vehicle drive in all selector lever positions. The vehicle
    starts after being stopped for a few minutes.
That seems to be a fairly accurate description of your fault. They don't say what the internal cause of those symptoms are, but it must be a well known failure mechanism to get special mention in the training manual. I think it is more than likely that your transmission requires an overhaul.

If (as I understand it) your transmission has not made any abnormal noises, and if the fluid is not burnt, then it may not need many parts to repair, but the labour involved in removing the transmission from the car and then stripping and reassembling the transmission is the problem. A certain amoount ov expertise and a few speccial tools are also required.

Citrojim produced a tutorial on the overhaul of the 4hp20 http://eastment.net/4hp20/4hp20_introduction.htm (see also the pages linked from there).

I don't know if it is viable to repair the transmission on an early C5, most people would scrap the car at this point.

BTW, I also found this repair manual: http://oto.to/schematy/automat/4HP20%20 ... manual.pdf
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

That does not look good.
It is strange that Lexia is not reading any faults, and as i have find in many cases when there is gearbox problem snow and sport light is on dashboard.

Also i have run Lexia test on electrovalve MV1 MV2 and pressure regulators no 3,4,5,6 and i can hear ončy No 4 and MV1 and MV2 clicking, pressure regulators No. 3,5,6 i can not hear clicking.
Is this ok or all of them can be hear making click sound when engaded?

So at this point i can only try to change the oil and hope it would work for a while, or buy used one since in my country cars are much expensive than UK.
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

Hi again, i need some advice. I have found nice gearbox and decided to change it myself. Now just looking at c5 engine it looks like a hell of a job is waiting for me, even guy who is good mechanic says "i don't want to do this, it is too complicated". Well his words really are discouraging, but i do not have much choice.
So here are my question: what must i do to pull engine and gearbox out of the car? Is hydractive suspensoin system conected to power steering pump on engine v belt? I can not find enywhere exact procedure for taking the engine with gearbox out so i would really apreciate help on this one.
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by citroenxm »

It's not that bad to remove..
Exhaust clamp off at back of engine
Drain cooling system
Remove radiator turbo hoses.. Intercooler
Remove front bumper and headlights
Remove front cooling house complete. Disconnect the harness plugs where noticed
Make sure car is already jacked up
Remove wheels remove the R clip from ends of front drive shafts
Refit wheels and lower car to the ground. Undo the drive shaft nuts (36mm socket)
Once undone jack car back up remove wheels split bottom ball joints
Remove both driveshafts. Gearbox is dry sump so no oil will leak out.
Work your way around the top of the engine and sides remove anything that's connected between the engine and car body. Electrical harness for both engine and gearbox.
Remove the lds feed pipe to THE PAS pump but plug the end to prevent fluid loss or dirt entry.
Remove the high pressure Pas pipe
Any coolant hoses.. The air con will need De gassing preferably professionally..
The suspension will not need disturbing. When you split the bottom joints put the suspension on lowest setting after sitting it safely on axle stands..
Check around make sure nothing is attached between car and engine.
Preferably get an engine hoist to lift it out and help support the engine and box while you undo the mounts.

That's a quick run through to give you an idea.

Being 4hp20 is the car a 2.2 hdi? Or an early v6 24v?
RichardW
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by RichardW »

Citroen manual suggests that on a MK1 C5, the 4HP20 box can be removed on its own without needing to pull the engine.
Gibbo2286
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by Gibbo2286 »

RichardW wrote:
31 Dec 2018, 09:39
Citroen manual suggests that on a MK1 C5, the 4HP20 box can be removed on its own without needing to pull the engine.


The AM6 autobox in the C5 Mk2 certainly comes out without dropping the engine and in fact has more room to work around than the manual box on the Mk 1. (I've done both)
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

Hi guys, just now i have find that you have answer me. It is 2.2hdi. I have start today and hope that tomorrow engine is out.

Thank you all, especially Citroënxm.
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drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

I have remove pas pump from engine but left hoses.
Because i was scared that it will get contaminadet. What to do whit it?

So i have to pull engine up or put on cart and just remove forward?
citroenxm
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by citroenxm »

Lower it onto a dolly and move forward slightly.. This is to aid preventing catching the turbo or exhaust on the front subframe. I recently dropped a 2.0 hdi out with two trolly Jack's only!
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

I have few questions. Should i remove all turbo hoses?
Should i disconnect wires and cables from engine or from source?
What to do with this hose in front of the car, looks like it goes from coolant box.
citroenxm
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by citroenxm »

Hoses at the front yes take front end off.. Hose under the car to the turbo I didn't bother.. If your worried at all about splitting or breaking a hose then take it off to be safe.. I removed cables from source but my unit wasn't going back in.
drAnte
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Re: Citroën c5 2004 automatic transmision

Post by drAnte »

Thank you, your advices really helps.