C3 '54 central locking problem

[tontonjon]

Our C3 has a well-known issue of the central locking system, whereby the car locks but cannot be unlocked using the remote. Most suggestions I have found on other forums suggest after-market radio issues, although the car's locking system was working fine until our return from holiday, allbeit with the need to point the remote at the car through the front door windows! The car was left for three weeks and I had thought that the bettery might be low. Perhaps the hot weather...

What happens: the driver's door can be opened using the key and the car can be locked using the remote, but the unlock results in a very soft clunk sound, as if an attempt is being made to throw the locks; the indicator lights flash as normal. The driver's door unlock only unlocks the driver's door and the boot; all other doors remain locked. If the remote or the dash lock button is used to lock the car, the car can only be opened by winding down the window and using the key in the driver's door to unlock it.

So far:
BSI reset;
battery recharged plus BSI reset;
battery in key fob replaced;
after-market radio removed and BSI reset.

All to no avail. On other forums they also mention a child-lock issue. The child lock button light is indeed on and the child-lock button locks the doors (whereupon I am locked in!). Removing this switch made no difference (if only!). The only other suggestions I have seen involve complicated electronics, removal of locking relays and reprogramming of the BSI.

Has anyone sloved this one in any other way?

[GiveMeABreak]

Have you repaired the remote key fob after you replaced the batteries?

Perform the following operations:
1 - Switch off the ignition and take out the key
2 - Wait 1 minute without pressing the buttons of any remote control
3 - Place the key of the high frequency remote control to be synchronised in position "ignition+"
4 - Within 10 seconds, press the locking button for 5 seconds
5 - Switch off the ignition and take out the key
6 - Repeat the procedure with the other keys from point N°3, otherwise move on to point N°7
7 - Wait 30 seconds, the remote controls are synchronised

Carry out a locking / unlocking test of the vehicle’s doors and tailgate.

The system can go into anti-scanning mode, so needs to be resynchronised on occasions.

[tontonjon]

Yes, tried this several times (once more just now, for luck). It's not the key that's the problem; it locks the doors and starts the car, but when unlocking I only get a quiet clunk, as if it is trying to unlock but just doesn't have the power. The child lock light is on permanently too; pressing this to switch it off just locks all the doors and I then have to lean out of the window and unlock the driver's door with the key!

It's a more serious issue, I think. One to do with the BSI. The trouble is, I don't know what to do about it and, from postings on other forums, Citroën dealers with the correct diagnostics stuff don't either.

The only thing I can think that would definitely solve the problem is to replace the car...

[GiveMeABreak]

I just need to understand what is going on:

Just to confirm the controls - as the 'Child Lock' button as shown below should not have anything to do with locking the other doors - are you getting these mixed up?

Child Lock Electronic Control This will lock rear doors from inside only when on.	Central Locking Button This will lock / Unlock ALL doors when pressed and when held for a few seconds will activate or deactivate automatic locking when driving off after 6 MPH

The above is on a 2007 model Exclusive, but if you have the electronic Child Lock function the button will have a similar picture, but may be located elsewhere.

With the C3, locking with the key will only lock the driver's door. In the event of Central locking failure, you need to peel back the black tape covering a hole on each door and rotate the control using a key or similar to lock the door manually when shut - when Central locking functionality is restored, it should revert to normal locking and unlocking.

Passenger Door Lock Manual Control (remove black tape) to lock door	Rear Door Controls Manual Controls for Child and Manual Locking

I'm not saying this is your issue - but it explains the system to lock and unlock manually in case you need it.

As for the Aftermarket Stereo:- The RD4 system is more than just a radio - I'm blue in the face from discussing this on various other posts - it is also the control interface that enables and disables the car's functions and some of the options - like diagnostics, reverse wiping in reverse, auto lights, guide me home, etc. etc.

The question is has anyone changed any settings in the BSI when the aftermarket radio was fitted? You would need Lexia to do this.

If there is a sticking / failing door lock actuator, it may need some attention - but this won't account for this happening simultaneously on all the doors.
In either case, I would get it hooked up to Lexia and see what it is not happy with. Lexia will be able to determine any faults and test the actuators. If there is an electrical problem - that could have been upset by the recent changing of the wiring or connector blocks when changing over the equipment.

[tontonjon]

Dear Marc,

I understand the issue with the stereo; no changes were made to the BSI after the new radio was installed. The original cables are in place and I'll try putting the old stereo back to see if this solves the problem. The problem has occured many months after the stereo was fitted, though. I'd agree that it would be the thing to look at first if the issue had occured directly after fitting. My car is a '54 and so doesn't have the same type of stereo system, I think. From what I have read, the wiring to the radio is only for the radio, unlike later models.

But back to your question, the child lock button is different, but its light is on all the time. Pressing it locks the car doors just like pressing the big, round, door lock button. I say doors, but it's only the driver's door that I can open at the moment (so I can't even set the other doors to lock manually!); when I press the child lock button, it remote locks the driver's door and I then have to open it from the outside with a key.

Yes, Lexia time; is there anyone near Sherborne Dorset kind enough to help me out?

Jonathan

[tontonjon]

Quick update

A C3 owners' forum posting suggests that the relays are to blame.

https://citroenc3owners.com/questions-a ... 3-t76.html

I'm now searching for the parts I need...

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, that was going to be my next suggestion - to look a the wiring and locate the correct relays, as the Child locking should not do what you have described. If you need help with wiring diagrams / relay locations, give us a shout and PM your VIN.

[tontonjon]

Marc,

Thank you. I've been to see my local garage and he wasn't surprised to see what is wrong. He says it's definitely a BSI problem and the better way to proceed is to have a completely new map installed at a dealer; this happened to a similarly-aged P206 and the remap sorted it out. His unit is only likely to tell him there's a problem with the BSI and he has no way of repairing it. He suggested that it was unlikely (but not impossible) that the relays are duff, but that it really wasn't worth doing anything until a full diagnosis and remap and that replacing anything on the BSI, or a new BSI, would require some Lexia work anyway!

Q. Do Lexias do remaps?

Jonathan

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Jonanthan

There's no such thing as a BSI 'Remap'. The ECU software can be updated by the dealer. The software update (if there is one available for your specific car) is downloaded directly via the PSA servers and then has to be manually configured afterwards to ensure that all the existing ECUs, parameters and options are recognised and configured correctly for your exact vehicle.

They will normally screenshot all the settings before doing this. A BSI download can take 3-4 attempts to take. You cannot access these files from your clone. Any attempt to do so (going on line using Diagbox / Lexia to PSA servers) will likely block your VCI and deactivate it.

I am guessing that there will be a minimum of 1 hour diagnostic time to hook it up, do a diagnostic, check whether there is an update; if so, take all the screen shots and perform the update and then manually check all the parameters are correct, line by line.

However, having said that, if there is no update available and there is an error - they will likely tell you that a new BSI is in order as they won't repair them.

Again I can see which (if any) relays are available officially, as some components cannot be replaced and the whole BSI needs replacing. Do you have your VIN handy?, as I see on one of your earlier posts about this car that there was some confusion over it being an LX or SX or Desire.....

[GiveMeABreak]

Here are the connectors on the BSI - I have indicated the ones relevant to the locking and child locking system in case you want to check the connections:

'PH2'

• Pin 13:- Door locking output:- Signal type '-'
• Pin 15:- Door unlocking output:- Signal type '-'
• Pin 16:- Deadlocking motors supply output (R.H.D.)

'EP'

• Pin 30:- Child safety and deadlocking relay output on right hand drive:- Signal type - all or nothing

'EH1'

• Pin 4:- Front LH door open switch input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 5:- Front RH door open switch input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 9:- Child safety and deadlocking relay output on right hand drive:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 20:- Child safety activation/deactivation dashboard warning lamp output:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 27:- Front LH door unlocking input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 29:- Front RH door unlocking input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 31:- Rear RH door child lock input:- Signal type '-'
• Pin 33:- Rear RH door open switch input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 34:- Rear LH door open switch input:- Signal type - all or nothing.
• Pin 36:- Rear LH door child lock input:- Signal type - all or nothing.

'EH2'

• Pin 2:- Rear tailgate opening control output:- Signal type '-'
• Pin 5:- Child safety activation/deactivation output:- Signal type - all or nothing.

[tontonjon]

Marc,

Remap = my words! Can a reinstall be done by any PSA dealer, or does it have to be a Citroën dealer? I have a recommendation for a local Peugeot franchise... I'm not sure where or how to start checking these connections and it seems more likely to be a software issue, but with these over-complex arrangements using several connectors, who knows?! Obviously designed for ease of manufacture and to hell with ease of maintenance.

I don't have access to a Lexia, so no chance of checking things first. I'll send VIN to you via PM sometime soon.

Thanks for spending all this time to help me!

Jonathan

[GiveMeABreak]

No problem, yes a Peugeot dealer will be able to do the same for you, the data comes from the same servers and will be done via VIN.

They should be able to determine if there are any fault codes returned too as they also use Diagbox which contains both PP2000 software for Peugeot and Lexia 3 for Citroen.

[tontonjon]

Good to know.

I forgot that we also have a black box for insurance; any link to the problem, or just another thing to drain the battery?!

[GiveMeABreak]

I've never and will never have anything like that fitted to my car Jonathan. I appreciate they may be good for some younger drivers and to get premiums down, but the data is used and shared with little or no oversight and that bothers me.

As for the car systems - I know the ones fitted to the OBD port have caused cars to malfunction in the states, causing engine lights and power to die and worse - but I think the ones fitted over here aren't wired into the diagnostic port. Systems that are purely GPS based shouldn't interfere if they are a using GSM to send your locations and speed info, but will be wired to get power from the vehicle. I'm sure there are probably other types that just work on a Smartphone without being wired into the car, but there are also other types I suspect, that are more integrated into the car's systems.

Yes, another thing to drain the battery too! But some of these are known to provide false data and incorrect speed info - as has been well-documented resulting in withdrawal of insurance and the like. Now to put my tin hat on as I say it's more big brother and an intrusion into your privacy IMO, but accept it may be necessary given the premiums in some areas!

[tontonjon]

Yes - it was to decrease the insurance for a young driver... otherwise I'd never have had it fitted. The one for the diagnostic port wasn't suitable for our car, and there were assurances about data use, so we went ahead. But it was reluctant. I daresay in the future there will be no choice and we shall pay for road use based on fines for infringements. I think by then I'll be wanting to give up driving!