FIXED - My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

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Zelandeth
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FIXED - My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

So when I got this car (previously Jim's one) the aux belt was pretty old and had got to that stage where they just squeak at idle in an utterly unstoppable and maddening way. Belt had just got old and glazed, and a new one restored blissful silence in a surprisingly painless procedure once I figured out where the tensioner lived on the TCT.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and the weather getting warm enough that the AC came into play, it tended to briefly "chirp" when the compressor clutch first pulled in. Never did it again, just the first time it kicked in after the car had lain idle for a few hours. I chalked that down to the spring in the tensioner just being a little lazy in its old age.

The last couple of days though it has taken to squeaking quite persistently with the AC on at idle, so I decided to investigate in case this was a sign of deeper problems.

Sure enough, the belt is trying to climb off the pulleys on the engine side. Slackened everything off and straightened it up, and after a 10 minute trip round the block, it's back to where it started again, with one groove off the edge of the hydraulic pump.

I'm assuming this is down to issues with the idler down in between the air con compressor and the alternator rather than the tensioner given where it's buried at the bottom. Can someone confirm this before I start hunting for parts (first step will be digging through the half tonne or so of stuff in the Lada's boot).
Last edited by Zelandeth on 17 Oct 2018, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by moizeau »

I had a very similar thing on my 2.1td. I was convinced it was the auto tensioner being slightly out of line so I replaced it. It was fine for a couple of weeks, then did it again. Checked everything was in line, did again several weeks later. Several months later it sheared the auto tensioner bolt. Replaced it from one in the tat yard along with the tensioner and the lump of cast that the tensioner is mounted to. Sheared the bolt again! I'd checked that the pulleys, alt, AC compressor were free previously but decided to check again. The power steering pump pulley was free when checked in the normal direction of rotation but notchy when spun in reverse. Then I noticed small pieces of swarf around it. The bearing was giving way and momentarily lock up. To start this was enough to flick the belt a tooth and then shear the tensioner bolt. Changed for one at the tat yard, happy ever after. If the tension is correct a slight amount of mis alignment (very slight) won't hurt due to the ribs. It's the snatch that did mine. When checking for free movement, check in both directions of rotation. Best of luck/.

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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

Certainly worth checking...I'll have a closer look at some point when it's less than a million degrees outside.

I know it's a common failure of the tensioner at least on the 1.9TD in that the needle bearings in the tensioner fail resulting in it running out of true.

Honestly I really can't complain - I've had the car since October and aside from needing a new belt to restore peace and quiet and a set of wiper blades she's been utterly faultless since then!
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by white exec »

The grip (power transfer) requirements on auxiliary belts can exceed what the belt is capable of sometimes.
After starting, the alternator will be doing its best to output 50-100A, or more, so calling for belt grip from what is often a small diameter pulley.
Add to that power steering, especially if put onto a hard lock.
Add to that hydraulic pump, if the car has one in the same belt.
Add to that AC, if switched on.


Many cars can protest with a loud squeal, as the belt momentarily slips.
Easiest immediate cure is to either ease off the steering wheel, or switch off the AC.

There are aerosol belt 'conditioner' sprays, which increase the grip of the belt surface, by breaking down the glaze. These are usually based on a solvent, and are often not recommended for flat (grooved) belts, but for V-belts instead.

As said, mis-alignment is something else.
Chris
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

Yep, I really wasn't bothered about the brief "chirp" of protest. Especially given it's from cold start, so EVERYTHING aside from the power steering is asking the most. Being an Activa it takes quite a while for the hydraulics to "pump up" from an overnight rest.

However it's now determined to jump out of alignment (I think it's the shoulder on the alternator pulley that's actually preventing it wandering any further), so something's definitely not right.

Guess next step will be to get the belt off again and see if there's any obvious play or other signs of unhappiness present.

I'll be good money that the item in question will be the most inaccessible one possible, because Citroen.

Really sad part is that this means that my only car with air conditioning is now out of commission until I get this sorted! Looks like the van will be seeing more use. Lada is horrendous in this heat, even with all the windows open it's like driving around in a mobile greenhouse.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by white exec »

If you have the space ( #-o) try a straight-edge across the pulleys/tensioners.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

Having had the car parked up sans belt for a few weeks now I finally had a chance to look into this today.

It actually appears to be a bit more of a head scratcher than I'd thought.

Everything appeared to move smoothly and without any play, and the pulleys all look to be sitting straight.

What did catch my eye however is the shiny edge here...
IMG_20181013_185524.jpg
I'm sure that wasn't visible before...

Having put a fresh belt on and properly routed it, as soon as the engine is started this happens.
IMG_20181013_185454.jpg
My current theory is that the vibration damper in the crankshaft pulley has failed and the outer section has drifted inboard, pulling the belt with it. Hopefully if that's the case just a new pulley will be all that's needed.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by moizeau »

Mark the crank damper pulley from centre to outer, it'll show whether that's the problem once the engine is started, I had one that lost it's rubber, still didn't throw the belt
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by RichardW »

Reckon you're right there, Zel; certainly looks suspect. I checked on service.citroen and it's not the same pulley as the HDi which is famous for failure - but that doesn't mean it's immune!!
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

It does look somewhat crusty...
IMG_20181013_194701.jpg
The belt isn't coming off there - it's suceeded in throwing it off the inboard side of the hydraulic pump once so far - and made an awful mess when it shredded the previous belt and took me about half an hour to clean up.

I might pull it off so I can inspect it better on the workbench.

I dare not run the engine with the belt on now in case it throws it off again. They're £20 a shot locally so I'd rather not waste another one.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

That pulley is knackered. The rubber bushing between the inner and outer metal components should be smooth and intact. That is cracked and uneven, so it will not hold its' shape under load.
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Re: My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Zelandeth »

I can now confirm that the issue here was indeed a stuffed crankshaft pulley.
IMG_20181017_161746.jpg
Replacement (part no 0515.H6 for this model) of the pulley has resolved the issue of the belt running off true at the hydraulic pump and alternator. The replacement pulley I bought was a Febi Bilstein one, part no 31102 and the going rate at time of writing was around £65. While there are some no-name ones available for less than half that, it seemed worth spending a few quid extra for a brand I trust. The Gates item was north of £100 though which felt a bit excessive.

Thread can now be closed unless the mods would rather leave it open for future questions...
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AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
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Re: FIXED - My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by moizeau »

Well 'goosed', I've heard of people fitting solid ones as replacements, if one can be sourced that is identical.
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Re: FIXED - My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by CitroJim »

Pleased all is now good Zel...

Only use a solid pulley for timing purposes... There's a good reason why it's a damped rubber one...
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Re: FIXED - My Turn for Belt Issues - Activa Aux Belt

Post by Stickyfinger »

When I changed mine this year it looked perfect, no cracks etc.

The outer was spinning on the inner like a bearing !....(Jim saw it as well)
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