Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Moderator: RichardW
- Timmo
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1346
- Joined: 11 Jul 2011, 15:41
- Location: Bottom Left!
- My Cars: 58 partner teepee outdoor hdi.
58 C2 Code in black! Fun! - x 168
- Contact:
Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Okay guys, have always thought the veg burner has gone Well for a 90 horse from the factory wagon, had pretty much convinced myself it had been tweaked, however after a fair bit of searching the net, nosing many guides on how to up fuelling, boost etc. Staring at the pump i couldn't work out why mine wad different, more Internet searching, thus time 406 versions i found one that looked like mine with the armour on, so that explained why i couldn't see the relevant bits,
All the ones de-armoured seem to have been done on a bench, so i kinda gave up on the thought of having a go, But! Its been niggling about in the back of my head, Is it possible to do in situ?? I think one of jims guides suggested not but was a few years ago.
What is niggling is this, would it be possible to use s dremel type tool to cut away the area around the fuel screw without having to remove the pump from the car?
Or is it just worth leaving it alone and living with it how it is??
Thank you in advance for your time to read this waffle!
Timmo.
All the ones de-armoured seem to have been done on a bench, so i kinda gave up on the thought of having a go, But! Its been niggling about in the back of my head, Is it possible to do in situ?? I think one of jims guides suggested not but was a few years ago.
What is niggling is this, would it be possible to use s dremel type tool to cut away the area around the fuel screw without having to remove the pump from the car?
Or is it just worth leaving it alone and living with it how it is??
Thank you in advance for your time to read this waffle!
Timmo.
After All, I am the Cornish one!
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
-
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
- Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
- My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon - x 231
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
As you probably know Timmo, the armour protects the immobiliser circuit. Unfortunately, as you've discovered, makes the max fuel screw inaccessible too!
The good news for you is, that's not the only adjustable part affecting performance. The other main part of the pump you can access is the LDA which works off manifold pressure and has a few adjustable parts to control pre-boost and on-boost fuelling and not forgetting the turbo wastegate adjustment down the back of the engine.
I blogged my dismantling of a pump once which covers what bits do what in fair detail if it helps.
The good news for you is, that's not the only adjustable part affecting performance. The other main part of the pump you can access is the LDA which works off manifold pressure and has a few adjustable parts to control pre-boost and on-boost fuelling and not forgetting the turbo wastegate adjustment down the back of the engine.
I blogged my dismantling of a pump once which covers what bits do what in fair detail if it helps.
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Not sure if it's any help (probably not!) but I did cut the armour off a Lucas pump in-situ one time. I have a feeling the Bosch may be tougher to reach but it's not all that bad to remove the pump if you really wanted a go (you can leave the timing belt in place by using the locking holes to hold the pulley, just leaving the awkward lower fixing that can be got with a half-moon spanner/heated and bent 13mm combi if you're cheap like me!).
To be honest though I think you'll find most of the gains, if any left to be had, by adjusting the LDA to fuel a bit more aggressively as the boost builds and upping the boost a tad. I feel once you get into needing to up the max fuel you're close to the limits of what the stock turbo/intercooler setup can put up with for any length of time.
To be honest though I think you'll find most of the gains, if any left to be had, by adjusting the LDA to fuel a bit more aggressively as the boost builds and upping the boost a tad. I feel once you get into needing to up the max fuel you're close to the limits of what the stock turbo/intercooler setup can put up with for any length of time.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
-
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
- Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
- My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon - x 231
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Oh P.S. My blog also details how I removed the armour though I had the luxury of doing so on the bench so it may not be wholly applicable to in-situ removal.
Having said that, I know it can be defeated in-situ but is not a job I would entertain if not absolutely necessary. While the max fuel screw is a simple adjustment, it does affect the entire fuelling range and would still likely require tweaking the other settings available, especially the idles (both cold and hot) and the max revs setting to avoid potential engine runaway and destruction.
Having said that, I know it can be defeated in-situ but is not a job I would entertain if not absolutely necessary. While the max fuel screw is a simple adjustment, it does affect the entire fuelling range and would still likely require tweaking the other settings available, especially the idles (both cold and hot) and the max revs setting to avoid potential engine runaway and destruction.
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49526
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6160
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Very much agreed... I've seen an engine wrecked whereby a bit of armour lept off during rather 'enthusiastic' removal and ended up in the inlet tract and then into a combustion chamber...
The mess was unbelievable... I may still have some pictures of the carnage...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Oh dear, yes that would be interesting to see if you don't mind digging out the pics Jim... If only to feel slightly better about having had to do the major surgery on White lol.
in that case I can only advise against removal in-situ. The ZX application with top-mounted intercooler didn't require the intake pipework to be disturbed.
in that case I can only advise against removal in-situ. The ZX application with top-mounted intercooler didn't require the intake pipework to be disturbed.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
- Timmo
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1346
- Joined: 11 Jul 2011, 15:41
- Location: Bottom Left!
- My Cars: 58 partner teepee outdoor hdi.
58 C2 Code in black! Fun! - x 168
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Ooooh those pictures sound interesting Jim!
Im not dead set on doing it, but just something that has been niggling away,a little more so when i lost 20mph up a local hill (the only 3 lane section in the county!) with just me and the bike in the back! :-O i have read a lot about how to tweak them, first fitting a boost guage to make sure you dont go over 18psi. The wastegate tweaks. Boost compensator, amd the fueling screw, the stumbling block is the armouring,
My thought on the dremel was purely down to many rears back i used one to cut through the downpipe where it enters the resonator box on the 16v bx, I'd caught it on the edge of inlaws driveway, with a flexi hose and a few cutting discs it did a surprisingly good job! Hence my thinking if it would be possible to cut around the area with the fuelling screw, kind of taking the corner off the Armour?
Im not dead set on doing it, but just something that has been niggling away,a little more so when i lost 20mph up a local hill (the only 3 lane section in the county!) with just me and the bike in the back! :-O i have read a lot about how to tweak them, first fitting a boost guage to make sure you dont go over 18psi. The wastegate tweaks. Boost compensator, amd the fueling screw, the stumbling block is the armouring,
My thought on the dremel was purely down to many rears back i used one to cut through the downpipe where it enters the resonator box on the 16v bx, I'd caught it on the edge of inlaws driveway, with a flexi hose and a few cutting discs it did a surprisingly good job! Hence my thinking if it would be possible to cut around the area with the fuelling screw, kind of taking the corner off the Armour?
After All, I am the Cornish one!
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49526
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6160
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Pictures of the damage from a small piece of armour 'shrapnel'
This was an otherwise very sound 1.9TD...
I saw it with my own eyes...
If you do de-armour in-situ then be sure to plug up all orifices very securely!
This was an otherwise very sound 1.9TD...
I saw it with my own eyes...
If you do de-armour in-situ then be sure to plug up all orifices very securely!
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- Timmo
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 1346
- Joined: 11 Jul 2011, 15:41
- Location: Bottom Left!
- My Cars: 58 partner teepee outdoor hdi.
58 C2 Code in black! Fun! - x 168
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Oooooooh thats quite nasty! Stsrk reminder that it doesn't take much to get in thst causes a Lot of trouble!
After All, I am the Cornish one!
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
'58 C2 Code
'58 partner teepee outdoor
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Timmo,
You can dearmour a bosch pump insitu but take necessary precautions to prevent any accidents.
I used dremel to remove the snap off bolts by cutting a small groove into the head and then they came out with a screwdriver. Some may need a bit of gentle persuasion.
This was at the same time MikeT was doing his refurb of a pump circa 2010.
MikeT put a link on DavieMc's post recently about the same thing.
Kenny
You can dearmour a bosch pump insitu but take necessary precautions to prevent any accidents.
I used dremel to remove the snap off bolts by cutting a small groove into the head and then they came out with a screwdriver. Some may need a bit of gentle persuasion.
This was at the same time MikeT was doing his refurb of a pump circa 2010.
MikeT put a link on DavieMc's post recently about the same thing.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- daviemck2006
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 4989
- Joined: 04 Dec 2010, 18:45
- Location: Macduff
- My Cars: Far too many good ones to remember. Many BL, Vauxhall, Ford, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, and now VAG
- x 487
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
And mine is not even started yet. The weather is just too cold and wild to do anything outside here.
Skoda Karoq 1.6tdi 2018
Citroen relay camper 2012
In the family
Seat Leon 1.5tsi tourer 2019 daughter 1
C1 vtr+ 2010 daughter 2
Citroen relay camper 2012
In the family
Seat Leon 1.5tsi tourer 2019 daughter 1
C1 vtr+ 2010 daughter 2
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49526
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6160
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
daviemck2006 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2018, 23:04 And mine is not even started yet. The weather is just too cold and wild to do anything outside here.
It's not much better down this way at the moment Davie It's stopped all outdoor work for me...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- Michel
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2207
- Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
- Location: Nothanks
- My Cars: Some cars and a motorbike
- x 659
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
CitroJim wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 06:07daviemck2006 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2018, 23:04 And mine is not even started yet. The weather is just too cold and wild to do anything outside here.
It's not much better down this way at the moment Davie It's stopped all outdoor work for me...
Ah, you're all soft! Tis but a summer's shower for us from East Lancashire..
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
Wow that was some nastiness Jim! Did look from the photo though that the bore had survived relatively unscathed, did they end up replacing a piston/rod & head or was the block scrap do you know?
It's lovely and sunny in Congleton today, just about to ring and see if there's anyone "home" at the scrap yard so I can grab my airbag goodies. Nice to see a bit of sunshine for a change.
It's lovely and sunny in Congleton today, just about to ring and see if there's anyone "home" at the scrap yard so I can grab my airbag goodies. Nice to see a bit of sunshine for a change.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49526
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6160
- Contact:
Re: Bosch fuel pump insitu De-armouring?
The engine was scrapped Dan...
It's been utterly gorgeous here today.. Robyn and I made the most of it by going for a long walk into town for a coffee and a trawl of the charity shops looking for books and vinyl
The thing that stops me working well when the mercury drops is not the cold as such - I have no great problem with that - but the bloody Reynauld's that renders my fingers useless
It's been utterly gorgeous here today.. Robyn and I made the most of it by going for a long walk into town for a coffee and a trawl of the charity shops looking for books and vinyl
The thing that stops me working well when the mercury drops is not the cold as such - I have no great problem with that - but the bloody Reynauld's that renders my fingers useless
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...