C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

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elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
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My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Im probably going to dump the car to the mechanics as Im sick with a chest infection/lurgy.

However thought I may pick the brains of those in the know.



Car was running fine and as I turned into a multi story the EML came on with emission/brake warnings.

Power was way down with a lumpy throaty engine.

Strangely lost servo assistance on the brakes? Dont know if thats a clue to something as not something I had with cars in limp home mode before.

Also getting backfires in the engine bay area.

Engine will idle roughly but not rev much past 1.5K revs.



Got the car recovered. Mechanic checked fault codes.

apparently 'many' were present.

One I saw was P1158,Mechanic mentioned throttle position sensor too.

Car hasn't missed a beat. Only thing I could say is maybe the idle has been a little rough of late.

Allowed the car to cool down and it no longer idles. Starts revs to around 1K and then dies off. Accelerator makes no difference to revs.
Tried disconnecting/reconnecting battery.

Car gets a good mix of town driving and 20 miles daily on motorway runs. I have an OBD scanner arriving today so will recheck codes.



Any advice or insights appreciated.



Thanks
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Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Welcome to the Forum.

Your generic scanner probably won't be able to provide much info unfortunately except provide basic fault codes - but that is better than nothing.

Let us know what fault codes you have, along with your VIN or Reg - and we'll see if we can provide more details of the faults.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 Feb 2018, 10:13
Location: Edinburgh
My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Well the votes are in.

Reg is REZ 1409
Got the code references from anther site. Hope they are correct

P0123 Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input
P1158 Lack Of HO2S22 Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich
P1153 Bank 2 Fuel Control Shifted Lean
P0121 Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P1161 Throttle Position Control Coherence

Hope this gives some clues?

Thanks

EDIT: While I was out I tried starting the car full throttle,seemed to stay running a teeny bit longer,mashing the pedal again possibly a teeny bit longer but we are talking near imeasurable difference
elcustardo
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My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Sorry,realised after I posted. Edited the reg in. REZ 1409
RichardW
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Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by RichardW »

Sounds to me like the throttle body has fallen apart, leading to the loss of manifold vac, and control of the mixture.
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elcustardo
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My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

So new throttle body being the most likely candidate?
I had wondered if the loss of brake servo was a red flag to something.
Quick look on Google makes it look a fairly easy bolt on part? at around the £150 online ,Citroen dealer wants £210 for it
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Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So this one is the C4 Pcasso 1.8 i 16v 125 Manual gearbox - with Magneti Marelli injection.

It's also possible that the Accelerator sensor could be playing up:
C4 Picasso Accelerator Sensor.PNG
Role of the sensor:
  • To register the driver demand (acceleration, decelaration)
  • To deliver the information to the injection ECU
The role of the injection ECU in terms of the information received:
  • To determine the opening of the motorised butterfly
  • To determine the injection time
  • To determine the ignition advance
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 Feb 2018, 10:13
Location: Edinburgh
My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Yeah I saw that,one on Ebay just now. However the lack of servo on the brakes leans me towards the Throttle over pedal?
I'll be honest until I started reading up I didnt realise it was fly by wire.
Im not into the spanners like I used to be.
elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 Feb 2018, 10:13
Location: Edinburgh
My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Right folks. Removed the throttle body. I had hoped to find a hole in the pipework or an obvious issue but no.
Looking online this seems about the best price
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/throttl ... -001Z.html

£144.81 delivered with 10% discount. I would like it quicker but the dealer is an extra £65 and I may still have to pay for other parts if it doesnt work!
Any views on the store or better/cheaper options?

Thanks for the help so far.
elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 Feb 2018, 10:13
Location: Edinburgh
My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

Okay so took a gamble and phoned Eurocarparts.
There were £175. Asked if they would match the online price and they have.
Will be in stock this afternoon!
So I will update if she comes back to life.
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Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by ekjdm14 »

Good luck with it and hope the new TB solves the issue, I have to admit the first thing that sprang to my mind on seeing this post just now was perhaps the brake servo pipe had split or the servo itself had ruptured... I suppose a quick vacuum check if you have a vac pump would help to put this one to bed before fitting the TB making it non-returnable...

(actually, if you're very careful not to mark it during trial fitting it may still be returnable if not the solution... Normally not my way of "playing" but with ECP I have no qualms)
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
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elcustardo
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 Feb 2018, 10:13
Location: Edinburgh
My Cars: Picasso C4 VTR+ 1.8 petrol: Deceased
C5 VTR+ 1.8 Petrol
x 9

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by elcustardo »

She lives! After a hesitant cough at start (where my heart & wallet sank) she is back like a trooper.
I cant really tell if she is running smoother/better but it certainly feels a wee bit better.
I have temporary(I hope!) deafness in one ear so my senses are a bit off.

Many thanks for all the help :)
ekjdm14
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 1810
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
Location: Congleton
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days
x 212

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by ekjdm14 »

If the fuel trims and such are all out of whack then perhaps it'll improve further after a few ignition on/off cycles and some driving since it'll have to re-learn the values with a working TB as opposed to the ones it "learnt" in correcting for the failure. Hope that's the end of the issues anyway.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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GiveMeABreak
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C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: C4 Picasso 1.8 (07) wont idle,EML lit/brake warnings and no brake servo

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Excellent result - thanks for updating us.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
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