Diesel Car Ban

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xsaras4ever
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Diesel Car Ban

Post by xsaras4ever »

Anyone fancy a rant ?????

In the proposals to ban diesel cars by 2040 or some other year ----- do trucks feature in this ------- bet not.


When you consider the number of trucks on the road, the distances they cover and the cc of their engines - surely when you do the maths you find that they produce more pollution than cars ????

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EDC5
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by EDC5 »

All new trucks I see have a big 'Adblue' tank alongside the diesel tank, I'm guesing they have a FAP too, so I don't see the problem, is there still a lot of pollution being made even with Adblue and the FAP ?

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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello - have to admit that we don't know.
But our point is that moves are afoot to ban the sale of new diesel and petrol cars by 2040, and our question is "what about trucks".
Does a 7 litre diesel truck produce 7 times more pollution than a 1 litre car if both are fitted with the same "green" technology ?

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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by elma »

Probably a lot more than that when you consider it's pulling between 20 and 45 tonnes.
They do rev lower than cars but they don't even do 10mpg.
Split the 25 tonne load into 25 vans or 50 cars and compare though and I think the lorry looks like an environmentally sound option.
All the big manufacturers are into electric and hybrid lorries, MAN were showing off a very futuristic one way before Ecars became fashionable.

Ships are even worse than lorries, you should see what they burn and how much of it.
Then there are planes which put their particulates quite high up in the atmosphere.

Ultimately the Oil age is starting to decline and the lots going to have to go.
I'm not sure it'll be managed in my lifetime though because the Lithium age will do just as much damage.
Research harvesting and refining Lithium, it's shocking.
We really could do with a reliable but ecologically pleasant battery technology before we ditch the engine, that or scalextric track roads.

xsaras4ever
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by xsaras4ever »

Absolutely correct about finding better technology..

Our son worked down under in New Caledonia for 3 months maintaining vehicles in a nickel mine.

One of the CAT machines ran out of diesel. They drove the 4x4 out to it and put 20 litres of diesel in because they couldn't tow the fuel bowser through the mud. The CAT machine started, turned around 180degrees on its tracks - moved about 10 metres and ran out of fuel again.
BTW: there is a hole in the ozone layer - guess where - above New Caledonia.....

We are certainly not against trying to be as green as possible but surely the rules should be applied fairly and not hit the usual soft target of the private motorist ?

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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by elma »

There's not really any profit left in haulage anymore, they've already taken multiple hits. Our preferred haulage company say they operate at a loss because there's always someone willing to break a few rules more than them and hence charge less. They reckon they make their money converting artics to flatbeds but keep the firm rolling in the hope of better times and because they don't want to lay off their drivers.

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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by MikeT »

Yes, the private motorist is likely to be hit hardest (restricted and then charged/taxed if necessary) while companies and businesses are largely being bribed to change. But mostly in relation to 26 identified UK pollution blackspots where the government has continually failed to meet imposed legal limits and only after they were taken to the High Courts in order to force them to act. (This plan will of course change as IMO, it's just kicking the can down the road).

There is no way in the foreseeable I can see any country with a security complex giving up such transportable, high-energy-density fuels. In fact, we're fighting wars for it.

On the note of plant machinery, has anyone noticed the sheer amount being used at the Waterloo Station platform-lengthening works? Bet the local pollution monitors have!

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myglaren
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by myglaren »

There is a lot of official muttering about dumping diesel trucks in favour of electric ones and you may have seen that the Post Office is introducing electric vans as of now.
Electric trucks and busses would make a lot more sense and have a huge impact on pollution levels.

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white exec
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by white exec »

Just cannot see why it is necessary to have huge diesel generators operating on urban construction sites! I suspect it's just sheer laziness: easier to order up a few generators than have the public supply run in. A local authority tax of say £20,000 a day might make the site managers think twice. But maybe not, if they're just passing the costs of all this down the line. :(

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Post by Eddie Nuff »

How often do we hear, on forums like this, of guys moaning and whinging of the deplorable range of the electric car. The best is the Tesla at a reported 335 miles, but boy does it cost :!: but the average range is c100 - 125 miles - and that's pulling a car weighing no more than a ton and half. A standard unladen unit and trailer will weigh in at c17t and must be capable of pulling 44t and the range must be an absolute minimum of 200 miles with the ability to recharge sufficiently to get back. Don't get me wrong, electric is coming, but it's a long way off for haulage.

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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by Richard_C »

Meanwhile the electrification of the West Coast line beyond Swansea has been abandoned so the 120 GWR electric trains on order from Hitachi will have to be fitted with diesel engines as well the the electric units, so more mass to haul about and 2x maintenance and all the savings and environmental benefits of electric trains are lost.

Now here a thought, maybe put HV wires over all our motorways and have pantographs on cars, better still like the dodgems at the fair a wire mesh overhead on all main roads, and one below so cars draw current from a pole and earth through a little metal strap underneath - your basic model family car can be single pole and sporty ones double pole, just like those sporty twin exhaust pipes. You can drive for miles.

Range is not the only problem, its the recharge time and the space needed for all those stations so you don't have to queue for a day or two. I was thinking about this earlier today. I have been driving for 42 years, often high mileage in some of the jobs I had. Let's say 1 fill up per week on average, probably more but lets stick with one. 2184 fill ups. Each taking 10 minutes. That's a full month of waking hours spent in a filling station. Now let's think about electric cars, half the range but let's generously assume you can get half your power at home when you are asleep, so that still leaves you with 2184 charges away from home, each taking 3 hours on the current fast charge technology. That would be 18 months of waking hours spent in some awful service area waiting and drinking nasty coffee before I can get on my way. If you extrapolate that to the whole population of drivers and passengers its a significant waste of human life.

If you were an actuary you might be able to calculate the life shortening effect of pollution and compare it with the life wasting effect of waiting for your car to charge up - I wonder which would be higher?

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

electric by 2040?! Nonsense. I know the goverment say so, but do you believe em?!

And as for Electric being clean, what a load of BS that is with the nuclear waste from power stations going in the bin; various of which have been recently shut down.

I hear that the National Grid couldn't possibly cope with electric cars, if everyone plugged in at 6pm it'd just go into meltdown

... and don't berate the lorries, much of what you buy will have arrived on one.... if our National Railways were any cop at all there'd be a lot less freight, and you'd never see Loco's on the back of Low Loaders coz it makes better sense to shift em by road (madness!)

...and while I'm having a rant, why is the taxpayer still subsidising private railway companies; if they can't make it pay it ain't the taxpayer's problem. Turn railway tracks into roads if they can't get it together.

Grrr, electric indeed. Poppycock!

Energy to move something will always require energy, what's your pollutant of choice?

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EDC5
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by EDC5 »

Has anyone thought of a mass LPG or even LNG revolution? It is such a clean burning fuel compared to the heavier petrol and diesel and requires a small change to both the consumer and doesn't require the mining of anywhere with a hint of lithium!

Also, I think the electrification of the railways debate is a red herring, an electric train is not inherently faster than a diesel. The time for electrification has been and gone in this country. In addition, the awful looking railway catenary and all the other visual pollution caused by overhead power lines on top of the vast cost for no concrete gain in railway performance puts me off to be honest. A new generation of super-fast diesels would be the best option in my opinion.

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demag
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by demag »

I had cause to talk to a young police lady recently (no I wasn't being nicked! :-D ). She mentioned that West Midlands Police are using Nissan Leafs ( Leaves?) to do local running about, when the driver finishes with them they are to be left on charge. Usually they haven't been put on charge or they've been plugged in but not had the charger switched on so they sit in the station yard while everyone runs round in petrol cars. On the occasions she used them she was impressed and said they were nippy but limited on miles.

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CitroJim
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Re: Diesel Car Ban

Post by CitroJim »

EDC5 wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 22:28
Has anyone thought of a mass LPG or even LNG revolution? It is such a clean burning fuel compared to the heavier petrol and diesel and requires a small change to both the consumer and doesn't require the mining of anywhere with a hint of lithium!


Now that's an excellent thought.. Gas for traction purposes can be made out of many raw materials - including waste... Many landfill sites use the gas so generated by the rubbish to generate electricity...

Waste is a massive issue and such schemes would help matters enormously...

As would generating electricity from the heat produced by incinerating waste...