Hello All,
Just bought a 100k mile Xantia estate 1.9 TD as a workhorse for my business.
Couple of niggles - firstly the engine has a pronounced rattle on idle. I have traced this to a pulley, which you can see vibrating badly at idle, but when engine speed is increased, it stops vibrating and noise goes away. Anyone else had this? I beleive it to be the belt tensioner.
Also, this only started happening today - upon starting the car, theres a loud hum and some vibration as the starter is turning and the front suspension suddenly drops - car starts and suspension rises again. Only on the odd occasion this happens? Have also noticed today a ticking coming from the engine bay when the brakes are pressed. Sort of a click, almost everytime you press the pedal. Is there but not as frequent on idle.
New to Citroens, so any advice appreciated.
Thanks
Paul
New Xantia owner with a couple of niggles
Moderator: RichardW
The pulley you can see vibrating have a worn out bearing - must be replaced ASAP then - to avoid the pulley possibly jam or tilt snapping the belt - suddenly leaving you with the car not functional.
Your Xantia is a hydraulic Citroen - which has a pressure regulator - to keep up the hydraulic pressure within working limits. This regulator produces clicking noises - perfectly normal.
What is NOT normal - is if the time interval between these clickings drops below some 30 seconds (clicking interval gets faster) - when engine idle & no actuators touched.
Then the pressure accumulator (brake safety) gassphere should be replaced. It's located on front of the engine.
The brakes on your Xantia is driven by the hydraulic pressure - not your foot. Your foot is ONLY acting on a variable valve which allows the pressure to activate the brakes. A spring has been inserted - to give you the "normal" impression of a brake pedal.
Pressing the brake pedal uses up some of the pressure - immediately causing a "top-up" of the pressure from the regulator - hence the click.
NOTE : to avoid costly repairs :
It's important you have a history on the cambelt - if not replace it as a preventive investment - will instantly trash your engine if it fails. Replace at 38Kmiles intervals.
Change engine oil (& filter) at prescribed intervals (6000miles) - keep an eye on the oil dipstick between oil changes.
Same rule on the hydraulic oil (LHM+) in the green reservoir every 32Kmiles - or at least every 2 y's.
If no history on the hydraulic oil - check the colour - it MUST be clear neon-green.
Enjoy your workhorse - as a special feature on a hydraulic Citroen - it won't hang on rear when loaded in the trunk.
Your Xantia is a hydraulic Citroen - which has a pressure regulator - to keep up the hydraulic pressure within working limits. This regulator produces clicking noises - perfectly normal.
What is NOT normal - is if the time interval between these clickings drops below some 30 seconds (clicking interval gets faster) - when engine idle & no actuators touched.
Then the pressure accumulator (brake safety) gassphere should be replaced. It's located on front of the engine.
The brakes on your Xantia is driven by the hydraulic pressure - not your foot. Your foot is ONLY acting on a variable valve which allows the pressure to activate the brakes. A spring has been inserted - to give you the "normal" impression of a brake pedal.
Pressing the brake pedal uses up some of the pressure - immediately causing a "top-up" of the pressure from the regulator - hence the click.
NOTE : to avoid costly repairs :
It's important you have a history on the cambelt - if not replace it as a preventive investment - will instantly trash your engine if it fails. Replace at 38Kmiles intervals.
Change engine oil (& filter) at prescribed intervals (6000miles) - keep an eye on the oil dipstick between oil changes.
Same rule on the hydraulic oil (LHM+) in the green reservoir every 32Kmiles - or at least every 2 y's.
If no history on the hydraulic oil - check the colour - it MUST be clear neon-green.
Enjoy your workhorse - as a special feature on a hydraulic Citroen - it won't hang on rear when loaded in the trunk.
Thanks for the response.
I have experience of working on many types of cars - just wanted to know a bit more about the hydraulics...cambelt was done in Feb this year, saves me a job.
Also, the little glass level indicator for the LHM fluid is contantly right at the top of the bottle, not in between the lines as it should be? Why would this be, overfilled?
Paul
I have experience of working on many types of cars - just wanted to know a bit more about the hydraulics...cambelt was done in Feb this year, saves me a job.
Also, the little glass level indicator for the LHM fluid is contantly right at the top of the bottle, not in between the lines as it should be? Why would this be, overfilled?
Paul
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blueboy2001
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The LHM indicator is checked with the car set to maximum height on the height control lever, and on level ground. It will always touch the top of the dome at normal height.
There is a tendancy for people to overfill the tank - it doesn't need to be full to the brim, but IMO better to have too much LHM than too little. As long as its not spilling out all over the engine its not a problem.
There is a tendancy for people to overfill the tank - it doesn't need to be full to the brim, but IMO better to have too much LHM than too little. As long as its not spilling out all over the engine its not a problem.
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andycarter
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Paul,
I'm going through a similar thing at the moment, I bought my Xantia about a month ago and it does the same thing sometimes when starting.
Its embarressing when you've got all your mates in the car and it suddenly does this combined farting / sinking act.
I've been unable to understand exactly whats happening but I'm suspicious that it might have something to do with the anti sink valve opening and stealing pressure from the front, although the back doesn't seem to move up accordingly.
Could it be the belt slipping on the HP pump? Although I don't think that would make the car drop suddenly.
I hope that between us we can discover the cause somehow...
Andy
I'm going through a similar thing at the moment, I bought my Xantia about a month ago and it does the same thing sometimes when starting.
Its embarressing when you've got all your mates in the car and it suddenly does this combined farting / sinking act.
I've been unable to understand exactly whats happening but I'm suspicious that it might have something to do with the anti sink valve opening and stealing pressure from the front, although the back doesn't seem to move up accordingly.
Could it be the belt slipping on the HP pump? Although I don't think that would make the car drop suddenly.
I hope that between us we can discover the cause somehow...
Andy
Are the front struts ok? - If they are siesed then the car sticks high and when jogged will suddenly drop. Quite fun for pedestrians - se your car has done it and give it a nudge and the whol front drops!
Seriously if the front struts creak and groan at all they should be changed as they will ruin the ride. Just done my BX after sucesfully persuading myself there was nothing wrong for a couple of years and the cars much smoother.
Jeremy
Seriously if the front struts creak and groan at all they should be changed as they will ruin the ride. Just done my BX after sucesfully persuading myself there was nothing wrong for a couple of years and the cars much smoother.
Jeremy
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andycarter
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Jeremy, I don't think my struts are stuck, but must admit it's something I hadn't considered. They do move very smoothly and quietly when changing height with the engine running. It feels like a sudden pressure drop as soon as the engine is started.
I was interested to see a fellow sufferer in Paul's original post because its not something that I could find much discussion about when searching the archives.
One other thing that might also be releveant is the height - there isn't any noticable difference between intermediate setting (thin bar) and maximum height.
Andy
I was interested to see a fellow sufferer in Paul's original post because its not something that I could find much discussion about when searching the archives.
One other thing that might also be releveant is the height - there isn't any noticable difference between intermediate setting (thin bar) and maximum height.
Andy
Do both ends drop? The reason I ask is teat there have been some postings concerning blown anti-sink spheres which can cause the back of the car to drop when moving off after several DAYS. Worth a search of this board to see if this looks familiar.
Otherwise I think there is air in the system and the pump is pumping foam, leave it standing for a bit and the bubbles amalgamate to pockets of air and fluid which may be more compressible, or alternatively the valves seal nicely for fluid but not for air.
If this is the case then the most likely culprit is the hose from the reservoir to the pump. Apparently not easy to change - again covered in a recent post.
Jeremy
Otherwise I think there is air in the system and the pump is pumping foam, leave it standing for a bit and the bubbles amalgamate to pockets of air and fluid which may be more compressible, or alternatively the valves seal nicely for fluid but not for air.
If this is the case then the most likely culprit is the hose from the reservoir to the pump. Apparently not easy to change - again covered in a recent post.
Jeremy
Can someone tell me why the LHM has gone yellowy?
Also, any tricks to changing it? Havent had a chance today, but will do it this week.
Also - someone mentioned groaning - it sometimes groans when it sinks down after switching the engine off. But no groaning otherwise.
Very pleased with it otherwise - just got to sort that pulley out and I will be there! Main reason for buying was a friend of mine had a 1.9TD hatchback Xantia and he drove it for 200k with very few problems, most of them suspension related.
Paul
Also, any tricks to changing it? Havent had a chance today, but will do it this week.
Also - someone mentioned groaning - it sometimes groans when it sinks down after switching the engine off. But no groaning otherwise.
Very pleased with it otherwise - just got to sort that pulley out and I will be there! Main reason for buying was a friend of mine had a 1.9TD hatchback Xantia and he drove it for 200k with very few problems, most of them suspension related.
Paul
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andycarter
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Hi Paul,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
...it sometimes groans when it sinks down after switching the engine off. But no groaning otherwise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> <Shouts> Me too!.
The LHM fluid is covered quite well in this thread:
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... IC_ID=3782
in particular the link mentioned by alans with the photos.
Today as I was leaving work I gave the front bumper a shove before getting in, the struts are definately not stuck as it compressed and rebounded smoothly. When then engine started it did drop a bit but no noise today.
The air leak suggested by Jeremy sounds like it could well be worth investigating and if anyone out there could point me to a description of how the antisink valve and sphere work I'd be very grateful.
Andy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
...it sometimes groans when it sinks down after switching the engine off. But no groaning otherwise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> <Shouts> Me too!.
The LHM fluid is covered quite well in this thread:
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... IC_ID=3782
in particular the link mentioned by alans with the photos.
Today as I was leaving work I gave the front bumper a shove before getting in, the struts are definately not stuck as it compressed and rebounded smoothly. When then engine started it did drop a bit but no noise today.
The air leak suggested by Jeremy sounds like it could well be worth investigating and if anyone out there could point me to a description of how the antisink valve and sphere work I'd be very grateful.
Andy
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Dave Burns
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- x 2
Have any of these cars got hydractive suspension, button in front of height lever in centre console, for the front to drop (or rear) suddenly there has to be somewhere for the oil to go, usualy its a nearly flat sphere and in the case of the rear doing it nearly allways the anti sink sphere.
If none are hydractive then I would suggest that the front struts can unload into the anti sink sphere, where else can the oil go? I can't think of anywhere else.
There are two anti sink valves, the front one is under the reservoir. When the safety valve opens and oil begins to pressurise the suspension circuit, the anti sink valve with the weakest spring is going to open first wether it be the front or rear.
The height of the car when you get in it is allways going to be lower than normal running height, natural leakage of oil from the suspension and your body weight compressing the gas in the spheres sees to this, and because of this the height correctors are going to be in a position where they demand fluid to re-establish the correct height, so the slide valves will be open to the supply side, this will allow easey passage to the oil from the struts, be it front or rear.
The question is, can the front struts unload their oil into the anti sink sphere via the supply line, I think it may be possible but the only reason for saying that is I can see nowhere else for it to go unless as mentioned earlier hydractive is involved with the extra sphere, any takers.
I don't buy the air theory, two struts worth of oil is not a small amount, any air gap that can accomodate that would mean big problems elsewhere in the system, to my mind at any rate.
Getting back to the original post though, if the front starts to drop as the engine is being cranked and before it has actually started, this would lead me to believe that the accumulator sphere is totaly goosed, it sould accept a small amount of top up pressure even if its new.
To confim this Paul, does the hydraulic low pressure light go out during cranking, if it does not and the suspension still drops then we are going to be head scratching I reckon.
If it does go out during cranking then there is no gas in the sphere at all and high pressure would be generated very quickly which would explain the suspension drop during cranking, again assuming no hydractive involvement.
Dave
If none are hydractive then I would suggest that the front struts can unload into the anti sink sphere, where else can the oil go? I can't think of anywhere else.
There are two anti sink valves, the front one is under the reservoir. When the safety valve opens and oil begins to pressurise the suspension circuit, the anti sink valve with the weakest spring is going to open first wether it be the front or rear.
The height of the car when you get in it is allways going to be lower than normal running height, natural leakage of oil from the suspension and your body weight compressing the gas in the spheres sees to this, and because of this the height correctors are going to be in a position where they demand fluid to re-establish the correct height, so the slide valves will be open to the supply side, this will allow easey passage to the oil from the struts, be it front or rear.
The question is, can the front struts unload their oil into the anti sink sphere via the supply line, I think it may be possible but the only reason for saying that is I can see nowhere else for it to go unless as mentioned earlier hydractive is involved with the extra sphere, any takers.
I don't buy the air theory, two struts worth of oil is not a small amount, any air gap that can accomodate that would mean big problems elsewhere in the system, to my mind at any rate.
Getting back to the original post though, if the front starts to drop as the engine is being cranked and before it has actually started, this would lead me to believe that the accumulator sphere is totaly goosed, it sould accept a small amount of top up pressure even if its new.
To confim this Paul, does the hydraulic low pressure light go out during cranking, if it does not and the suspension still drops then we are going to be head scratching I reckon.
If it does go out during cranking then there is no gas in the sphere at all and high pressure would be generated very quickly which would explain the suspension drop during cranking, again assuming no hydractive involvement.
Dave
Hi All,
Thanks for all the responses.
The light does indeed extinguish under cranking, in fact it goes out before cranking I think.....
I think I am right in assuming that I need to change the accumilator sphere as well as the LHM fluid? And it would be logical to change the sphere whilst the system is empty of fluid?
Regards
Paul
Thanks for all the responses.
The light does indeed extinguish under cranking, in fact it goes out before cranking I think.....
I think I am right in assuming that I need to change the accumilator sphere as well as the LHM fluid? And it would be logical to change the sphere whilst the system is empty of fluid?
Regards
Paul
On a BX the warning light goes off when there is enough pressure to operate the brakes and from cold the car starts to rise shortly after it has gone out. The safety valve that operates the light is in fact a spring loaded valve which operates the switch, and when the pressure is sufficient for the brakes it moves, opens the feed to the suspension and turns off the light.
In turn the light is coupled to the oil pressure switch for test reasons and for reasons of operating the 'stop' light. This means that whenever the oil pressure light is on the bydraulic pressure and stop lights are on, but the stop and hydraulic lights do operate when the oil light is extinguised.
On a hot start there may well be sufficient pressure in the system to keep the hydraulic light extinguished but it shows because the oil light is showing. This would account for it going out while the engine is cranked.
The usual sign of a failed accumulator is the frequent ticking of the regulator. If this below about 20 seconds then the accumulator may need changing or the can be a fault in the regulator non-return valve (easily repairable)
jeremy
In turn the light is coupled to the oil pressure switch for test reasons and for reasons of operating the 'stop' light. This means that whenever the oil pressure light is on the bydraulic pressure and stop lights are on, but the stop and hydraulic lights do operate when the oil light is extinguised.
On a hot start there may well be sufficient pressure in the system to keep the hydraulic light extinguished but it shows because the oil light is showing. This would account for it going out while the engine is cranked.
The usual sign of a failed accumulator is the frequent ticking of the regulator. If this below about 20 seconds then the accumulator may need changing or the can be a fault in the regulator non-return valve (easily repairable)
jeremy
I have simmilar problem with hydraulics on mine Xantia 1.8i, although new accumulator has been fitted recently. Citrobics helps but just for day or two. There is hydroflush in the system currently. Car is fine after leaving the garage for 4 - 5 days, after that period it just starts to misbehaving a bit. Rear end drops faster, during braking rear end sinks down (not always), while braking there is noticable sound similar to regulator clicking but sound comes from back of the car (also more rapid interval in comparing to regulator cutting). Don't no what to do else. Doseur was replaced in June. Filters in LHM tank are clean.... Are callipers problem, or might be struts (front one)?
Help!
Help!