c5 pump diagram

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 10 May 2009, 21:43

has anyone got a exploded diagram of the c5 hydraulic pump ???

havin one last brainstorm before shes gone

cheers all

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 11 May 2009, 14:49

Have you considered a recon unit ?
These pumps are pretty expensive as new parts.

Because you cant get any individual spares for bits inside the pump, there is consequently no exploded views or diagrams available officially.
Such documentation may only exists by the pump manufacturer or any recon companies.

I dont even think that the reknown company Pleiades (doing recon Citroen hydraulics) holds such information.
They simply dismantle the units and replace any worn bits by experience and may only have some machinery drawings for bits they get from sub contractors.

As a DIY project its then a matter of patient dismantling, learning how every bit is fitting and is supposed to work. Then finding if any bits are obviously worn or damaged.

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 11 May 2009, 17:56

was looking at taking it out and see whats broken and then see what our machineshop can do to sort it

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 11 May 2009, 18:15

Whats the year and mileage of the car it comes from ?

Judging by mileage in service, it may be rather evident that the electric motor may need new carbon brushes and bearing bushings.
Also the pump itself may need new axle bearings.

Dont think you will find big problems overhauling it, if you have access to a machinery shop

$\:D/$

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 11 May 2009, 19:00

its from a 51 plate milage just coming up to 120k so likely original pump anyways

only looking at refurb as the breakers want silly money for a secondhand one

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 11 May 2009, 20:11

I am ABSOLUTELY sure that many readers on this forum will be VERY interested in your project

It may well show up that bits used in this "rocket science secret box" are fairly common parts found at industrial suppliers.

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 11 May 2009, 20:59

well found a few diagrams of other citroen hydraulic pumps and all seem to be honest quite a simple design

if its the case of buying one anyways i may as well strip it and see what can be done

any info much appreciated

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 13 May 2009, 21:58

sportingfiat wrote:well found a few diagrams of other citroen hydraulic pumps and all seem to be honest quite a simple design

if its the case of buying one anyways i may as well strip it and see what can be done

any info much appreciated

The problem is you do NOT know for certain that it is the pump, before you strip it (if not to late!) see comments against your original C5 on the ground thread

Cachaciero.

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 14 May 2009, 19:48

right ive had pipes off etc and used a bigger fuse for the pump both outlets as such too the front are pumping nothing

as such i reckon they are either partially seized or dead which im assuming is why its blowings fuses like mad

just got the citroen TIS manual and shifting through it looking for more info

can repair anything but hydraulics are not something ive ever touched so taking it steady

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 14 May 2009, 21:16

It might be worth having a natter with Martin at Pleiades about this. last time I was there he was looking at one of these units albiet with a deep frown...

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 15 May 2009, 12:11

As mentioned earlier by cachaciero in your C5 low yhread, it is most likely an internal EV problem in the unit.

Have no idea how these EV's are made up. Suspect they may have inherited some design from the earlier hydractive valves driven by a coil.
No matter the design the valve must be able to stay in either of 3positions :
1) closed - rest position
2) open for pressure to pump up car
3) open for reservoir to compenste lesser loads

Could be done by 2 simple on/off valves, but that would be too simple for Citroen engineers I believe

Pleiades · Unread post by **Pleiades** » 15 May 2009, 13:51

Hi All.

Yes as Jim says, I was looking into a C5 pump, the job has got put on the back burner for now as I have other things to do, (we are getting a new workshop soon) Inside the C5 pump that I have, as soon as the cover was removed we could smell the burnt electrical smell that you get with any burnt out electrical item.

The hydraulic pump itself was fine as was the motor part, I think that the troubles lie in the electrical control box, someone did tell me the other day that he simply removed the cover and cleaned the insides with contact cleaner and his pump bust back into life, but he could have been just lucky..

Regards
Martin.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 15 May 2009, 15:25

Perhaps a burnt out electronic power stage for driving the EV coil ... ?

Anyway thanks for your input Martin.
Sounds promising and not too much more complex than the dreaded HA-ECU problems with the wellknown VN05 replacement jobs.

sportingfiat · Unread post by **sportingfiat** » 15 May 2009, 19:39

hmmm worth a mention

well mines getting changed next week sometime so hopefully will get the old one in bits for a looksy

if it is an electrical problem then i might be in luck as my mate works for a company that specialise in repairing carr ecu`s so will leave it in his hands and see what can find out

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 15 May 2009, 21:19

AndersDK wrote:As mentioned earlier by cachaciero in your C5 low yhread, it is most likely an internal EV problem in the unit.

Have no idea how these EV's are made up. Suspect they may have inherited some design from the earlier hydractive valves driven by a coil.
No matter the design the valve must be able to stay in either of 3positions :
1) closed - rest position
2) open for pressure to pump up car
3) open for reservoir to compenste lesser loads

Could be done by 2 simple on/off valves, but that would be too simple for Citroen engineers I believe

In fact I believe that it is two on / off EV's one to pressurise and one to depressurise.
While we have arrived at the EV as the most likely single failure culprit by a process of logical deduction I certainly wouldn't go to all the trouble of removing the pump without doing some checks first, particularly as there are dual failure cases which could cause the same problem.
In particular there is one thing which keeps bothering me, what happens on the pump with an undefined input from the height sensors.

Cachaciero