changed the diesel pump on the BX today, and the bloody timing is out!
i locked the flywheel using a junior hacksaw, and the camshaft and pump, but still it's a tooth out.
I've started the car, it's smoking it's head off, so i've put all of the locks in place again and they all still line up, so how is the bloody timing out?
is there a trick i'm forgetting about??
help
BX Timing belt woes
Moderator: RichardW
BX Timing belt woes
91 Citroen AX 1.4D
99 BMW M Coupe
99 BMW M Coupe
Dont panic.
If you are dead sure the cam & crank are timed - then its the pump a bit off timing. This is however very easy to correct.
Have you noticed that the pump itself is mounted with bolts in slotted holes ? This is exactly to allow for pump timing with these bolts slacked and then turning the pump body ever so slightly in either direction.
Its a LOT easier than your present state of panic may allow you to think
Precautions :
The engine must be normally hot, indicated by the fan cutting in shortly.
The pump mounting bolts be slacked off, not dangling loose. Remember that the injector piping will resist the pump body to be turned, and tend to flip back the pump body.
Use any suitable tool to securely grip on the pump body for better hand torque when adjusting.
You can very clearly hear a change in the note of the diesel clatter from the engine. When it starts knocking heavily, you have the timing too far advanced. When the engine seems to be too quiet, the timing is too far retarded. Trick is to get the timing as close as possible to the heavy knocking, but with only the normal diesel clatter note.
When you are satisfied, then torque the pump bolts very carefully. Then re-start engine and check if the pump is still timing OK.
Finally : slack off all the rigid injector pipe unions and ever so slightly wriggle the pipes to remove any strain imposed by the turned pump body.
Good luck. X-ing fingers for you 8)
If you are dead sure the cam & crank are timed - then its the pump a bit off timing. This is however very easy to correct.
Have you noticed that the pump itself is mounted with bolts in slotted holes ? This is exactly to allow for pump timing with these bolts slacked and then turning the pump body ever so slightly in either direction.
Its a LOT easier than your present state of panic may allow you to think
Precautions :
The engine must be normally hot, indicated by the fan cutting in shortly.
The pump mounting bolts be slacked off, not dangling loose. Remember that the injector piping will resist the pump body to be turned, and tend to flip back the pump body.
Use any suitable tool to securely grip on the pump body for better hand torque when adjusting.
You can very clearly hear a change in the note of the diesel clatter from the engine. When it starts knocking heavily, you have the timing too far advanced. When the engine seems to be too quiet, the timing is too far retarded. Trick is to get the timing as close as possible to the heavy knocking, but with only the normal diesel clatter note.
When you are satisfied, then torque the pump bolts very carefully. Then re-start engine and check if the pump is still timing OK.
Finally : slack off all the rigid injector pipe unions and ever so slightly wriggle the pipes to remove any strain imposed by the turned pump body.
Good luck. X-ing fingers for you 8)
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Thanks Anders, will give this a go in the morning. Is there any other way of checking that the timing is exactly correct. the hacksaw seems a bit loose and needs moving back and forth to locate.
I should also mention that i marked up the exact position of the old pump and set the new one up in exactly the same way.
I should also mention that i marked up the exact position of the old pump and set the new one up in exactly the same way.
91 Citroen AX 1.4D
99 BMW M Coupe
99 BMW M Coupe
- CitroJim
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And make sure they're really good and TIGHT and that the washers are in place. Otherwise they'll come loose and risk falling off in no time. How do I know I once had a very lucky escape. The pumps vibrate quite significantly and certainly enough to shackle off a less than fully tight mounting nut.AndersDK wrote:When you are satisfied, then torque the pump bolts very carefully.
For the nut uderneath the pump body, a spanner shaped into the form of a "lazy C" is the ideal tool. I have one with a 13mm ring at one end and an 11mm ring at the other. One end is perfect for pump nuts and the other is good for the near-impossible 11mm bolt in the rear timing cover
What make of pump was it? Lucas pumps appear to be individually timed, hence their little timing value plates on the throttle shaft so this may account for why the timing appeared to be out. I'm not aware that Bosch pumps are individually timed however.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
An update! All problems fixed and the car car is running as sweet as a nut with the new pump.
Thanks Anders, you were completely correct with your diagnosis, the car needed nothing more than a twist of the pump to sort things out, the cambelt was not a tooth out as I first thought.
I must admit to not understanding why the new Bosch pump didn't time up in the same place as the old bosch pump, despite having exactly the same part numbers and being visually identical.
I think these early winter nights tend to throw an element of panic into any job carried out at this time of year...It's a constant losing battle against time and darkness!! Roll on the summer, more hours of light to play cars in!!
Thanks Anders, you were completely correct with your diagnosis, the car needed nothing more than a twist of the pump to sort things out, the cambelt was not a tooth out as I first thought.
I must admit to not understanding why the new Bosch pump didn't time up in the same place as the old bosch pump, despite having exactly the same part numbers and being visually identical.
I think these early winter nights tend to throw an element of panic into any job carried out at this time of year...It's a constant losing battle against time and darkness!! Roll on the summer, more hours of light to play cars in!!
91 Citroen AX 1.4D
99 BMW M Coupe
99 BMW M Coupe
An update! All problems fixed and the car car is running as sweet as a nut with the new pump.
Thanks Anders, you were completely correct with your diagnosis, the car needed nothing more than a twist of the pump to sort things out, the cambelt was not a tooth out as I first thought.
I must admit to not understanding why the new Bosch pump didn't time up in the same place as the old bosch pump, despite having exactly the same part numbers and being visually identical.
I think these early winter nights tend to throw an element of panic into any job carried out at this time of year...It's a constant losing battle against time and darkness!! Roll on the summer, more hours of light to play cars in!!
Thanks Anders, you were completely correct with your diagnosis, the car needed nothing more than a twist of the pump to sort things out, the cambelt was not a tooth out as I first thought.
I must admit to not understanding why the new Bosch pump didn't time up in the same place as the old bosch pump, despite having exactly the same part numbers and being visually identical.
I think these early winter nights tend to throw an element of panic into any job carried out at this time of year...It's a constant losing battle against time and darkness!! Roll on the summer, more hours of light to play cars in!!
91 Citroen AX 1.4D
99 BMW M Coupe
99 BMW M Coupe