Checking timing 1.9TD
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Checking timing 1.9TD
Hi all
A friend's TD has lost its compression on all cylinders; I suspect a belt slip...
Have removed timing belt covers and crankshaft pulley.
The injection pump sprocket is aligned with the 2 bolt holes that lock it, and the camshaft sprocket is aligned with its bolt holes similarly.
The crankshaft woodruff key is not vertical; it is probably 5 to 10 degrees before vertical.
What do think, please?
The next test I will do will be to insert a drill bit into the flywheel to check TDC, but before I do that, I would appreciate an idea of whether you think the timing is 'out' on the info I have supplied.
Thanks
John
A friend's TD has lost its compression on all cylinders; I suspect a belt slip...
Have removed timing belt covers and crankshaft pulley.
The injection pump sprocket is aligned with the 2 bolt holes that lock it, and the camshaft sprocket is aligned with its bolt holes similarly.
The crankshaft woodruff key is not vertical; it is probably 5 to 10 degrees before vertical.
What do think, please?
The next test I will do will be to insert a drill bit into the flywheel to check TDC, but before I do that, I would appreciate an idea of whether you think the timing is 'out' on the info I have supplied.
Thanks
John
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- (Donor 2021)
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- Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
- Location: Kent / Susssex
- My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong - x 39
Thanks Malcolm
I did notice that the key was pointing at the raised block, possibly the front edge, which would therefore suggest then that the timing is OK....?!
If that is the case, I am wondering what could have caused the sudden compression loss
Any more thoughts?..I will try the drill in the meantime to be sure
Thanks
John
I did notice that the key was pointing at the raised block, possibly the front edge, which would therefore suggest then that the timing is OK....?!
If that is the case, I am wondering what could have caused the sudden compression loss
Any more thoughts?..I will try the drill in the meantime to be sure
Thanks
John
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- My Cars: Citroens since 1990, BX Diesel, GTI, TZD with 1.9 TD running extra boost before it was fashionable!, ZX Volcane TD, S2 Xantia break 1.9TD, Xantia HDI 110, currently zipping about in a C2 Diesel. C2 died from the dreaded worm, C3 Picasso HDI Exclusive, the adventure continues.
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I have seen XUD motors displaying symptoms of lost compression, ie spinning over too fast on the starter when there is a fuel problem, is the low fuel light on?
Stewart
Stewart
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
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- (Donor 2021)
- Posts: 4625
- Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
- Location: Kent / Susssex
- My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong - x 39
hi all..
well, stuck really..
if I had to describe the fault, the only way i can think of is that all pistons are disconnected from crank silly i know and impossible
but what else can really be wrong...?
I have checked for fuel at injectors and its there.
Just to refresh you, the engine turns over with no compression, sounds like an electric motor.
Have taken a video on my phone, if anyone wants it PM me your email and i will send, its probably 2-3 Mb and needs quick time I think.
Camshaft is not broken
Belt Timing looks spot on (i.e. the woodruff is pointing at the forward/front/nearest to bumper edge of the raised lump) when the injection and camshaft sprockets are in right place...
John
well, stuck really..
if I had to describe the fault, the only way i can think of is that all pistons are disconnected from crank silly i know and impossible
but what else can really be wrong...?
I have checked for fuel at injectors and its there.
Just to refresh you, the engine turns over with no compression, sounds like an electric motor.
Have taken a video on my phone, if anyone wants it PM me your email and i will send, its probably 2-3 Mb and needs quick time I think.
Camshaft is not broken
Belt Timing looks spot on (i.e. the woodruff is pointing at the forward/front/nearest to bumper edge of the raised lump) when the injection and camshaft sprockets are in right place...
John
You can only truly tell if the timing is right if you peg the flywheel as well. The hole (supposed to be 8mm, but rust often means you can only get a 6mm rod in) os by a web behind the starter motor.
Have you checked the valve clearances? These can tighten up to the extent that when cold the valves are held open. Quite a common cold-starting issue.
Have you checked the valve clearances? These can tighten up to the extent that when cold the valves are held open. Quite a common cold-starting issue.
Brian.
Long shot. Cam sprocket slipped round on cam (woodruff key failure) so timing looks OK but cam is actually a bit out?? Perhaps cam isn't even moving... just the sprocket??
I'd have to take off cover to have a look.
Has any work been done in this area in the past year or so??
David
I'd have to take off cover to have a look.
Has any work been done in this area in the past year or so??
David
2009 C5 HDi VTR+Nav Tourer
2006 C3 HDi Desire
2006 C3 HDi Desire
If all is mechanically well and connected it should be pumping out masses of white unburnt fuel from the exhaust. No compression wouldn't interfere with the injection pump which would continue to supply fuel - which would have to go somewhere.
You make no mention of smoke - which makes me wonder if there is any fuel getting there? (stop solenoid, leakoff pipes on Bosch pump (not Roto-Diesel or derivatives - they just leak and smell) fuel pipe, filter . . )
I had a gasket fail between 2 adjacent cylinders (Nothing got into the cooling system). I knew something was wrong but just managed to get it home. This is possible but unlikely to affect all 4. Thing cranked with a noticeably strange noise on the starter - fast and slow I think)
You make no mention of smoke - which makes me wonder if there is any fuel getting there? (stop solenoid, leakoff pipes on Bosch pump (not Roto-Diesel or derivatives - they just leak and smell) fuel pipe, filter . . )
I had a gasket fail between 2 adjacent cylinders (Nothing got into the cooling system). I knew something was wrong but just managed to get it home. This is possible but unlikely to affect all 4. Thing cranked with a noticeably strange noise on the starter - fast and slow I think)
jeremy
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- Posts: 893
- Joined: 07 Oct 2005, 16:31
- Location: North Wales
- My Cars: Citroens since 1990, BX Diesel, GTI, TZD with 1.9 TD running extra boost before it was fashionable!, ZX Volcane TD, S2 Xantia break 1.9TD, Xantia HDI 110, currently zipping about in a C2 Diesel. C2 died from the dreaded worm, C3 Picasso HDI Exclusive, the adventure continues.
- x 31
Another check is to touch a live wire from battery +ve onto the centre pole of the stop solenoid (be careful to avoid short circuit) you should hear a click, or with your finger touching the solenoid you might feel the moving part jump up and down as power is applied, if nothing happens then that could be the culprit, on some solenoids the inner moving part can be removed, with that removed the engine should start but not stop.
Stewart
Stewart
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
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- (Donor 2021)
- Posts: 4625
- Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
- Location: Kent / Susssex
- My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong - x 39
ok.. can try those..
but i really cant see how compression is lost with a fueling issue? I am willing to be taught
but surely the air is really what gets compressed,
i need to share the video to show the noise etc.. not sure how to share it, if anyone wants it and can then make it available to everyone else please feel free.
To reiterate, it's not the fact that it wont start that bothers me, its the way it turns over and the noise, and lack of 'chugging'
There is no smoke..
But two of the injectors (loosened) were pulsing with diesel - did not try the other two..
hmm
but i really cant see how compression is lost with a fueling issue? I am willing to be taught
but surely the air is really what gets compressed,
i need to share the video to show the noise etc.. not sure how to share it, if anyone wants it and can then make it available to everyone else please feel free.
To reiterate, it's not the fact that it wont start that bothers me, its the way it turns over and the noise, and lack of 'chugging'
There is no smoke..
But two of the injectors (loosened) were pulsing with diesel - did not try the other two..
hmm