Checking timing 1.9TD

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 18 Mar 2007, 09:55

Hi all

A friend's TD has lost its compression on all cylinders; I suspect a belt slip...

Have removed timing belt covers and crankshaft pulley.
The injection pump sprocket is aligned with the 2 bolt holes that lock it, and the camshaft sprocket is aligned with its bolt holes similarly.
The crankshaft woodruff key is not vertical; it is probably 5 to 10 degrees before vertical.

What do think, please?

The next test I will do will be to insert a drill bit into the flywheel to check TDC, but before I do that, I would appreciate an idea of whether you think the timing is 'out' on the info I have supplied.

Thanks
John

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:10

do insert a drill but also if you look at the crank case just above the crank spocket there is a small raised square block in the casting,when the crank is corectly timed the woodruf key in the crankshaft should be in line with the forward edge of the small raised block
regards malcolm

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:27

Thanks Malcolm

I did notice that the key was pointing at the raised block, possibly the front edge, which would therefore suggest then that the timing is OK....?!
If that is the case, I am wondering what could have caused the sudden compression loss
Any more thoughts?..I will try the drill in the meantime to be sure

Thanks
John

Stewart(oily) · Unread post by **Stewart(oily)** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:42

I have seen XUD motors displaying symptoms of lost compression, ie spinning over too fast on the starter when there is a fuel problem, is the low fuel light on?
Stewart

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 18 Mar 2007, 11:22

Thanks
Never thought of that Stewart
Will check it out (ie fuel supply to injectors etc) and get back
Cheers
John

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Mar 2007, 09:46

hi all..
well, stuck really..
if I had to describe the fault, the only way i can think of is that all pistons are disconnected from crank

silly i know and impossible

but what else can really be wrong...?
I have checked for fuel at injectors and its there.

Just to refresh you, the engine turns over with no compression, sounds like an electric motor.
Have taken a video on my phone, if anyone wants it PM me your email and i will send, its probably 2-3 Mb and needs quick time I think.

Camshaft is not broken

Belt Timing looks spot on (i.e. the woodruff is pointing at the forward/front/nearest to bumper edge of the raised lump) when the injection and camshaft sprockets are in right place...

John

Brian UK · Unread post by **Brian UK** » 29 Mar 2007, 10:19

You can only truly tell if the timing is right if you peg the flywheel as well. The hole (supposed to be 8mm, but rust often means you can only get a 6mm rod in) os by a web behind the starter motor.
Have you checked the valve clearances? These can tighten up to the extent that when cold the valves are held open. Quite a common cold-starting issue.

David W · Unread post by **David W** » 29 Mar 2007, 10:24

Long shot. Cam sprocket slipped round on cam (woodruff key failure) so timing looks OK but cam is actually a bit out?? Perhaps cam isn't even moving... just the sprocket??

I'd have to take off cover to have a look.

Has any work been done in this area in the past year or so??

David

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Mar 2007, 10:25

hmm.. thanks Brian, will remove starter I guess..
Clearances, not checked, shims..
but they couldn't suddenly fail...?

this happened to the owner at a roundabout and that was it..

I guess I need the injectors out to really prove no comp on all cylinders, it will be pretty obvious at 24:1...

J

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Mar 2007, 10:27

Dave thanks

Yep camshaft turning..

Will pull the sprocket off after all the other checks done..

hmmm

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 29 Mar 2007, 11:26

If all is mechanically well and connected it should be pumping out masses of white unburnt fuel from the exhaust. No compression wouldn't interfere with the injection pump which would continue to supply fuel - which would have to go somewhere.

You make no mention of smoke - which makes me wonder if there is any fuel getting there? (stop solenoid, leakoff pipes on Bosch pump (not Roto-Diesel or derivatives - they just leak and smell) fuel pipe, filter . . )

I had a gasket fail between 2 adjacent cylinders (Nothing got into the cooling system). I knew something was wrong but just managed to get it home. This is possible but unlikely to affect all 4. Thing cranked with a noticeably strange noise on the starter - fast and slow I think)

Stewart(oily) · Unread post by **Stewart(oily)** » 29 Mar 2007, 12:06

Another check is to touch a live wire from battery +ve onto the centre pole of the stop solenoid (be careful to avoid short circuit) you should hear a click, or with your finger touching the solenoid you might feel the moving part jump up and down as power is applied, if nothing happens then that could be the culprit, on some solenoids the inner moving part can be removed, with that removed the engine should start but not stop.
Stewart

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Mar 2007, 12:36

ok.. can try those..

but i really cant see how compression is lost with a fueling issue? I am willing to be taught

but surely the air is really what gets compressed,
i need to share the video to show the noise etc.. not sure how to share it, if anyone wants it and can then make it available to everyone else please feel free.

To reiterate, it's not the fact that it wont start that bothers me, its the way it turns over and the noise, and lack of 'chugging'

There is no smoke..
But two of the injectors (loosened) were pulsing with diesel - did not try the other two..

hmm

David W · Unread post by **David W** » 29 Mar 2007, 12:59

Can you mail me the video?

woollard.com at btinternet.com

Change to a proper @ and close the rest up to it.

David

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Mar 2007, 13:04

thanks Dave