diesel pump timing

rcflyers · Unread post by **rcflyers** » 07 Dec 2002, 23:09

Can anyone please tell me the symptoms (more noise, loss of power etc) of a diesel injection pump with the wrong timing (too far advanced or retarded)
Thanks.

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 08 Dec 2002, 00:38

I've only experienced an Diesel engine out of timing some years ago. From memory if it's retarded you'll get white smoke and a noisey clatter sound and if it's advanced you'll get pale blue smoke and again clattery. In both cases you will lose power, a danger is if is too far either way, out of timing you stand a good chance of the Pistons hitting the Valves. Your best bet would have peep in the Haynes manual for Diesels next time you visit a shop that sells them, if you don't want to buy one.
Sooty <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 08 Dec 2002, 02:22

There's no chance of valves and pistons coming together because of pump timing errors, only when there are camshaft/crankshaft timing errors will this happen.
The diesel knock will increase and become more pronounced with timing too far advanced, it will also be reduced when the timing is retarded, this may be accompanied by increased smoke as the optimum burn time and ignition temperature may be reduced, white smoke may aslo be produced when starting from cold.
Performance will suffer if timing is too far one way or the other.
Dave

jmd · Unread post by **jmd** » 08 Dec 2002, 08:07

My advice is you never touch the pump,or timing, if you need to have this altered,only have it checked, or altered by an expert using the proper equipment. Are your Glow Plugs & Injectors in good condition,they might be worth checking,also your Fuel Filter,and Air Filter

rcflyers · Unread post by **rcflyers** » 08 Dec 2002, 11:17

Thanks all,
I have 2 rover 218 cars, one has the citroen 1.9 non turbo engine, the other has the citroen 1.7 turbo diesel engine.
They are both noisy (diesel clatter) when cold, but when warm, the 1.9 quietens down, but the 1.7 is still very clattery at idle and under load. also the 1.7 has no bottom end power until the turbo starts boosting. the 1.9 has a lot more bottom end power, but obviously is not as lively at the top end due to lack of a turbo.
I haven't noticed either car emit black, blue or white smoke.
The air filter is OK and the new fuel filter i fitted to the 1.7 has made no difference.
Does it sound like an injector/pump timing fault?

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 08 Dec 2002, 16:00

The Bosch pump is easey to time up and can be done by yourself providing you know what to set it at, you would need a small dial test indicator and a piston travel adapter.
The Rotodiesel on the other hand is not so easey and would suggest getting this checked as advised above.
Dave

JohnD · Unread post by **JohnD** » 08 Dec 2002, 20:18

When the XUD7turbo was put in the Rover it was a detuned version. In the BX it had 90BHP at 4300 rpm but in the Rover only 87BHP at 4300rpm. Max torque in the BX was 133lbs/ft at 2100revs and in the 218, 133 at 2500revs. Even the engine in the BX was a bit gutless until the turbo kicked in.

rcflyers · Unread post by **rcflyers** » 08 Dec 2002, 21:55

Ok,
Do you know exactly how they de-tuned them?
Is it possible to get the "lost" power back?
cheers.

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 08 Dec 2002, 23:18

Sorry I got a bit mixed up with the timings, yes Dave is quite right about the injection timing, its the valve timing that causes the damage if its wrong.
Sooty <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

rcflyers · Unread post by **rcflyers** » 10 Dec 2002, 01:58

I'm still a bit lost here!

JohnD · Unread post by **JohnD** » 10 Dec 2002, 23:42

Try a good dose of injector cleaner in your fuel tanks for a couple of weeks. Diesel Redex or Miller's dieselclean.

rcflyers · Unread post by **rcflyers** » 11 Dec 2002, 00:45

Do "liquid engineering" products like that really work? I have always been very sceptical that they make any difference!

DLM · Unread post by **DLM** » 11 Dec 2002, 05:12

IIRC modern low-sulphur diesel is lacking in lubrication properties compared to previous diesel fuel. This lubriation is important for correct and long-term operation of the diesel pump and for loosening & burning deposits from the injectors. In France this is overcome by including a proportion of biodiesel (10%?)in the fuel, which has better lubrication properties.
In the UK it's therefore a sensible precaution to add some form of additive to do this - even if it's only every few tankfuls.