Xantia 1.9TD brake bleed nipple location

keithwalton · Post by **keithwalton** » 08 Apr 2006, 22:42

Hello all,
Tomorrow i shall be attempting to cure my wonderfull xantia's

hydraulic issues.

Recently the front near side sphere failed causing a lack of suspension travel on that corner. I have since replaced both front spheres and all is well (almost)
When changing the spheres over i lost about 2l of lhm fluid due to it generally going everywhere (even with system de-pressurised) as the dead sphere and entirely filled lhm.

I initially only had 1l of lhm spare and i put that in and ran the car, after hearing it sucking in air i went and got another few litres of the stuff and it took an entire 1l bottle for it to read just under the max line.

Now here comes the problems, there is bound to be air in the system somewhere i just need to get it out!
I have tried the citreobatics thing which has helped to an extent.

When i first drove the car again the front end seemed to excesively wallow over bumps (under damped) but after going up and down many times that has mostly faded away.
When going up and down its no longer a smooth movement it takes it in several discrete steps (although much faster than before i had suspension issues).

I have tried depressurising and pressursing the hydraulic system several times which has helped out the suspension at the expense of the brake pedal.

The brakes still work and the car comes to an abrupt enough halt but the pedal itself rests near to the floor, i'm suspecting therefore the brakes need bleeding to get the pedal back. (or is there a trick to pressurising the system that the haynes has neglected to mention).

Now here comes the main point for this thread, where is the bleed nipple located!
On the haynes manual it shows it to be roughly in the middle of the caliper facing the drive shaft.
Either they are showing a different model of brakes or i'm being really dense as it is not there!

Car is a 95N xantia 1.9 turbo d lx (non hydractive)

any help / suggestions would be most appreciated as well as links to appropriate threads (i've hunted for over an hour!)

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 08 Apr 2006, 23:02

First off, you may probably have missed the bleed nipple as it'll be hiding under it's own natty little rubber shower cap that doubles as a loop to route the pad wear sensor wiring!! It is in the area you describe mind, facing towards the centre line of the car in a nice awkward location on the caliper near the outer CV joint of the driveshaft.

IMHO, what you've actually done changing the spheres shouldn't have had such a significant effect on the rest of the hydraulics mind. If you've bled the accumulator screw whilst the car has been idling on it's high setting and you've topped the level to the mark the whole system should be OK.

Out of interest what's the duration of the audible click as the regulator is cycling when the car is up to running height and idling?

Andrew

keithwalton · Post by **keithwalton** » 08 Apr 2006, 23:08

yeah i've done the bleeding on the acumulator a few times. i shall try it again tomorrow though on fully high, as the haynes (+ other websites) mentions lowering the car, running it, undoing the nut leaving it for a while, shutting off, tightening the nut setting it to high then starting up.

the click isnt very often when the car is sat there idleing i havent counted how long but it seems fairly normal to me.
However something i forgot to mention, it clicks alot when pumping the brakes, and the pedal also has a 'squelching' sound to it when i let go.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 09 Apr 2006, 00:25

There is no bleeding on the accumulator screw ?
Thats a telltale started by someone who does not understand the function of the Pressure Regulator and the accumulator sphere.

Its NOT a bleed screw - its a pressure relief screw - for service purposes - to relieve the system pressure when thats needed. It wont bleed anything as there is nothing to bleed there. So you may bleed this screw as much you want and like - it wont help you a bit - it wont harm either - just waste your time.

The Citaerobics is the only means of bleeding air/gas from the suspension. Standard manual bleeding procedure is the only means of bleeding the brakes - but you have the added advantage of constant brakes pressure if you clamp something on the brake pedal. Dont need to pump the pedal.

keithwalton · Post by **keithwalton** » 09 Apr 2006, 00:40

Nothing is being bled from that screw, it was recomended somewhere to depresurise the system and return the fluid to the resevoir. then pressurise it again then run it up and down a few times to get fluid in all the right places and air out. When i first did this before changing the spheres (thought the system could of gotten stuck in fully up / down mode so i tried to 'reset' the hydraulics) the system was imediatly far more responsive going up and down fast on demand. now its not

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 09 Apr 2006, 00:59

Right Keith -

I overloóked the fact you get fast clicking using the brake pedal. This is a symptom of air in the (front) brakes - and/or the accumulator sphere possibly in need of replacing. But try first bleed the brakes and see what you get. Use a long PVC hose (for fuel air-horns etc) to bleed back directly to the reservoir - otherwise you suddenly get a low reservoir level.

keithwalton · Post by **keithwalton** » 09 Apr 2006, 01:14

That was my next thing on the list to try

I couldnt find the bleed nipple and light was fading fast. I'd rather go for fresh fluid as the stuff has been in there for a while, i've inherited the car from my father (he's got a new mid life crisis toy now) and i know he hasnt changed the fluid as he was recomended not to by his local cit dealer as 'if it aint broke dont fix it' was there attitude. It's now got 107k on the clock (i've had it since 106k, two new spheres, tyres, aux belt, oil change later) he got it 2 years ago now with late 80's on the clock i think. It's was starting to get back to being a normal car (bar its 'french' eletrical glitches)

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 09 Apr 2006, 08:18

You only need to discard the first drop of LHM when bleeding the brakes as AndersDK suggests because you are replenishing with fresh from the reservoir.... so, when you start to bleed the brakes as soon as you see nice green LHM, pop the tube into the LHM resevoir and you create a non-waste bleeding system.

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 10 Apr 2006, 08:53

When I replaced the LHM fluid I was wondering why the car wasnt lifting

thus realizing more LHM fluid, stuck in some more and it started lifting 8) not worrying to much if I over filled since it would just leak out

Cant say I ever bothered bleeding the brakes after this change and even the more recent sphere change, whats the chances that when the accumulator was replaced at the Citr Specalist he would have bled the brakes, does replacement require brake bleeding?????

Just wondering as when the next service on the Xantia comes, or rather when my BIL asks me to show him I may attempt to bleed the brakes.

keithwalton · Post by **keithwalton** » 13 Apr 2006, 23:04

thanks all for the help on this one. after much cursing and fighting the british weather i manged to get the brakes bled in the end, there wasnt much air in there as whilst waiting for the rain to clear i did some of the bouncing up and down tricks (holding the brakes whilst going up and down) i felt a distinct patch of air being squeezed out. i did bleed quite abit of fluid through as the first lot that came out was a mucky greeny brown colour. I shall drain and refill the whole lot soon.

one thing to note is the location of the bleed nipple on the front really is in a crafty position and they couldnt of made it much worse if they tried! not only was it hidden it was difficult to turn, i feel sorry for those with hydractive spheres to get in the way!

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:17

mezuk04 wrote: Cant say I ever bothered bleeding the brakes after this change and even the more recent sphere change, whats the chances that when the accumulator was replaced at the Citr Specalist he would have bled the brakes, does replacement require brake bleeding?????

Well no, there is no requirement to bleed the brakes when changing spheres... and as the brake calipers are 'dead ends' in the system unlike the rest of the system... it should be born in mind that if you do a LHM change/flush etc .... if you don't bleed the brakes then you will always have some 'old' fluid stuck in the caliper and the pipe to the caliper.

As keithwalton has now found

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:18

and dont forget to remove and clean the filters in the tank when replacing your LHM,even more so if the old fluid is a greeny brown colour
regards malcolm