Do you still put grease on your nuts?

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 16 May 2005, 23:43

Remember this subject that was put on the forum a few weeks ago. Around fifteen guys replied, and everybody used lubrication of one form or another. I put the same question on another of my forums - one which is for caravanners. About half of the thirty or so who replied did use grease, but the rest got really up-tight about NOT using anything. Even the Forum Admin. chipped in with a warning about posting misleading advice. To be fair - most caravans run on Alko chassis, and their information booklet states that "grease should not be used on wheel bolts". Personally, I still think Alko's advice is wrong. A lubricated thread which is correctly torqued, won't come loose.

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 17 May 2005, 00:03

Since that post, I have noticed myself using copper grease on any nuts or bolts I tighten up... Its costing an arm and a leg! I cant see anything wrong with it, as it makes getting the nuts off afterwards a hell of a lot easier, and results in less sheared bolts.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 17 May 2005, 01:10

Shouldn't cost that much. A 500ml tub of Coppergrease is about £3-£5 usually, and I'm about 70% through the one I bought abour 2 years ago. I use the stuff on everything too, and have done for years.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 17 May 2005, 01:16

Yep- Coppaslip on everything, but you only need a very tiny smear for it to do its job- a tub should last years.

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 17 May 2005, 01:30

no copper slip for me!
Not for any particular reason, but i have a 2 and 4 foot breaker bar, and i also dont ever torque them up! Rattle gun them on and a quick half turn on the breaker bar and there pretty solid (solid enough to upset the tyre man!). When un doing them i get the breaker back on and they come off under my body weight!
i might also add that i carry an extendable wheel wrench in the car and this will also undo them when needed!

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 17 May 2005, 12:21

I never used to use grease, but I had a 5 mile walk in the middle of the night because I broke one of those extending wheel-wrenches. when I got back to it over 2 hours later, I was still struggling with the 4' bar I was now using. When it finally went, it went with a big bang, and a small cloud of rust dust.
It was this experience that changed my mind!

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 17 May 2005, 14:57

I've got a .5kg tub of copperslip and have started using it for everying when you see the state of some of the threads i've had to undo on my project activa i have started to use the stuff to protect them against the elements and corosion.
Andy

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 17 May 2005, 15:04

You have to be careful when you tighten things up with a greased thread because you can get things much tighter with the same amount of torque (about double), i.e. when you're given a figure for torquing a bolt the figure will either be specified for dry threads or oiled threads. The other thing you have to be careful of is that if you tighten something up with greased threads and get it tight, then the grease can disappear and you'll find it takes much more effort to shift it with dry threads.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 17 May 2005, 17:35

The average torque wrench is going to be pretty inaccurate antway, so I don't think a thin sliver of grease is going to make much difference!! My torque wrench may have come with a calibration certificate but that was 25 years ago and I have no idea how accurate it is now-its probably close enough for jazz, anyway!!
Where grease is very useful is on chassis and suspension nuts that you know you are going to have to undo again at some time or other, and on BX brake bleed nipples, and, of course, the spare wheel cradle wind down bolt.It also makes the wheel nuts a lot easier to spin in and out.
Coppaslip is also essential when assembling alloy to iron parts, as anyone who has ever wrestled with a BL A series thermostat housing, or R series water pump will know.....grrrrr....grind....chop.....[xx(]
Its almost a pleasure to be able to strip a hub assembly off the car in 15 minutes, because you greased the nuts/bolts/pins etc last time, after it took 2 hours and at least one broken essential bolt...and we all know how much easier these things come apart when they've been subjected to years of oil leaks!!
I'm not advocating great big dollops of coppaslip, just a very tiny sliver is all it needs, plus a bit of water resistant grease on the exposed thread end.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 17 May 2005, 22:24

I have just finished my can of copper grease, I appropriated it in 1977! have already splashed out on its replacement[:D]
Stewart

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 18 May 2005, 00:12

Wouldnt cost me that much, just I stood on the tube.... so needed a replacement... fool! ha

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 18 May 2005, 03:17

Best I don't join the caravanners then; as I mentioned on the other thread, I have a 30 year old Evinrude outboard that has been used exclusively in salt water and I doubt that there's a bolt or nut that I have ever taken out that will not just screw straight out with no dramas if needed. Even the wheel nuts have a blob of waterproof grease on them and if I need to remove, I just ping it off, remove, refit and reblob.
I never remove anything that I don't either grease or oil on reassembly and I can't remember the last time that the same part was a problem to remove the next time I needed to access it.
Alan S

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 18 May 2005, 03:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kowalski

You have to be careful when you tighten things up with a greased thread because you can get things much tighter with the same amount of torque (about double), i.e. when you're given a figure for torquing a bolt the figure will either be specified for dry threads or oiled threads.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The standard is for lubricated threads. It is standard engineering practice to lubricate a thread on re-assembly. The "special" case is dry threads, and that's fairly rare.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The other thing you have to be careful of is that if you tighten something up with greased threads and get it tight, then the grease can disappear and you'll find it takes much more effort to shift it with dry threads.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the whole point of copper grease. Even if the grease dries out (which would take several decades on a sealed component, and at least 5 years on an exposed-end thread) the "copper" part still remains, and since copper is a self-lubricating metal (easy slip planes in the crystal structure) then it will still be reasonably easy to dismantle.
To be honest, even bolts that I've lubricated with standard lithium grease have still come undone without drama decades later. I remember a small Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine that I serviced when I was about 12. It was pulled apart again not that long ago, and suffered none of the usual steel-bolt-in-aluminium-casing problems, mainly because everything was greased on assembly.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 18 May 2005, 04:08

I have heard it suggested that "copperslip/copper grease" is a bit sus when used on or in anything alloy due to the potential of electrolysis particularly in a salty environment and that the aluminium grease/anti-sieze is a better option although the aluminium is a real "Whoops I got some on my hands, oh hell now it's on my spanners, oh shyte now it's on the phone, bloody hell I got it on my ear, how did it ever get on the door handle, who got it on the phone book, now it's on the flies of my new black suite, who got it on the handle of the tap, now the whole family's covered in it.................." kind of stuff![:(!][:(!] but has anybody else heard that about the copperslip??
Alan S

andycarter · Post by **andycarter** » 18 May 2005, 04:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have heard it suggested that "copperslip/copper grease" is a bit sus when used on or in anything alloy due to the potential of electrolysis<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Probably the metalurgists out there will give a lengthy explanation why you shouldn't use it. In reality though, I reckon any electrolysis effect will be tiny compared to the water-borne corrosion resulting from not using grease.
Just my $0.02