1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

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Peter Palmer
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1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by Peter Palmer »

I'm putting my engine with the knackered bottom end back together (put new shells in it for now just to see if it will start - but it wont. It just doesn't sound right turning over.

With the injectors out it spins over free enough so its not binding anywhere but with the injectors in it just sounds a bit odd. I'm 99% certain I've got the timing right on it, the cam hole lines up and the crank hole also lines up, its just the pump that's a bit weird. this is a picture of how I've got it.

Image

But this is with the engine rotated 180 deg (I'm assuming the pump is the same size as the crank so that has turned 180 as well.

Image

It has a timing notch in it that side as well, you can see a bit of blue paint on one side of the puilley so maybe that is the correct one to use but how critical is the pump timing anyway, diagbox sais there was 500psi or so in the rail and had the crank rpm about 280-300 however it says cam/crank corelation is out although my pins are bang on.

The only thing that is different is the crank pully, I damaged the reluctor ring taking the engine out so I got a whole new timing pully complete with relutor ring, the pully said it was compatible with my engine, the later one as the earlier pulleys look different of the 16 valves. But what I did notice was the reluctor ring is only pressed onto the timing sprocket and it came off my old pully quite easily with no way of getting it back in the right place again to ensure the timing hole is in the correct place.

This is my new pulley.

Image

Is there any other way of confirming the timing is correct whilst the injectors are out other than using the pins? Seems stupid to have a ring that can come off the pully fairly easily with no way of getting it back in the right place again, the timing hole should have been through the pulley itself somewhere.
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mickthemaverick
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

Have a look at this video Peter. Towards the end I believe he shows the setting up of the timing marks and has to rotate the engine four or even six times to get the pump timing lined up. Hope it helps :)

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
Peter Palmer
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by Peter Palmer »

Think that's the older 16v, doesn't look the same, the pump pulley must be the same size as the crank one though as it ends up in the same place after every revolution, its just the two identical notches on the pump sprocket 180 deg apart for timing/locking it up, which one do you use or does it not matter.

My valve timing is definitely correct though, just watched a baz meridith video and when the pin is in the crank the keyway is at 3 o'clock which mine is.

This is what I mean about the two notches

Image
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BarneyRubble
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by BarneyRubble »

If you have your locking pins in the correct places on the crank and camshaft and within the forks/notches on the
water pump, then your engine is mechanically timed. The hole between the forks on the waterpump rim mean the
pump is correct. So far so good. If you keep turning the crankshaft bolt by hand, the blue paint mark should line
up again though that may take many rotations.

When you said the rail pressure was 500 psi, I presume you mean 500 bar?

Diagbox says "cam/crank correlation is out". This is hard evidence. This means your engine is mechanically timed, but not electronically timed.

Things I would check for a crank-no-start would be..

1. Is the crank sensor definitely connected, pins and recesses all nice and clean and un-damaged and corrosion free?
2. Is the wiring all free of knicks and sound?
3. Weird that diagbox detects no sync, but there's no code thrown? Here's a video about that jic that's what's going on.



4. Is the crank pulley / reluctor definitively the right one for your engine code? To save bother, I would get one from PSA / Stellantis directly using your VIN and get certainty on this, but that's me. Just looking at my engine as an example (DV6ATED4), a 1.6 HDi, I found there are 2 variants of the "engine timing pinion", or reluctor wheel, so verify that you have the right one. From Citroen/Pugeot on Autodoc, the cost was £68.49 at the most expensive.

https://tinyurl.com/24uo64pe : 0805 E5 ENGINE TIMING PINION Until OPR 12719 5 September 2011
https://tinyurl.com/276yud2g : 96772672 80 ENGINE TIMING PINION Since OPR 12720 6 September 2011

http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/gen/Gen_Organr.html

5. Now an excellent play-by-play video of how to do the timing and so on a 1.6HDi. This is my reference guide video, the guy's a pro. Your belt could be a tooth out so double check everything, despite the pins apparently fitting.



Good luck. hth.
RichardW
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by RichardW »

The pump is not timed for injection, but it should be in the timing position to minimise stress on the cambelt. I know the 2.0 can shred the cambelt if the pump is out of phase.

What happened to the engine? It will not start if there is no cam / crank synch. Is there a chance the woodruff key on the cam has sheared off? If there has been valve / piston contact then likely the cam lobes have shifted - but this wouldn't give a timing error.

Mick's vid is the petrol engine....😂
Richard W
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mickthemaverick
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

RichardW wrote: Yesterday, 21:16 Mick's vid is the petrol engine....😂
Yes, sorry about that, I'll claim I'm not fully with it at the moment!! :-D
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
Peter Palmer
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by Peter Palmer »

Well its running, think it was most probably just air in the system, doesn't sound too bad apart from the horrendous thrust bearing whine. It does need a new clutch to be fair and for £50 for the kit I've just ordered one. I know the van is on its last legs but I've only spent a couple of hundred on it up to now and for that if I can get it to go from something that had to be towed off the motorway a couple of weeks ago with a destroyed bottom end to ticking over at least then its got to be worth it. Also its a learning experience, I could probably take one of those engines out now in a couple of hours max, in fact that's how I'll put the new clutch in.

This was the other thread about it.

viewtopic.php?p=870397#p870397

https://photos.app.goo.gl/s7R3hd4iPzU9omMB7
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BarneyRubble
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Re: 1.6 hdi fuel pump timing

Unread post by BarneyRubble »

Ah, well done Peter, I'm glad you got the engine going in the end. Now that it is running, what does Diagbox show as far as synchronization is concerned? Back in sync? If so, how did the references come to re-align? It would be interesting to see what the gotcha was or what the fix to the problem was.

Good on you too for having a bash at doing the clutch too. Williams Mobile Mechanic | Clutch Specialist https://www.youtube.com/@WMCS/videos has 100s of videos on cars and vans which should help out. I think the only extra thing I'd get is a clutch alignment tool, and red rubber grease, but if you can get the parts for £50, show me where you can get somebody to do a clutch for £75 all in? Well done, let us know how it goes. Great to hear of people keeping old vehicles on the road for the price of a night out!