No start Citroën C4 Grand Picasso HDI-110 2010-2013

[AtraHasis]

Hi, I have a Citroën C4 Grand Picasso I (UA) 1.6 HDI-110 2013 (but the model that ran from 2010 to 2013).

My car lost all forward power (as apposed to electric power) at around 115 km an hour, and since then refuses to start.
When I try to start the car, the engine makes a short try (sounds like a loud cough) and then immediately stops the try.

I've had a mechanic look at it since someone in my circle thought it sounded like the timing belt.
He told me I needed a lot done probably for 17000dkk (roughly £2000). That would include a new Cylinder Head (I think I'm translating topstykke right here) and either camshaft or crankshaft, I was a bit distracted by the seriousness of the damage.

Now, this is probably my fault. I should have replaced the timing belt at once, when the previous owner didn't know when it had been replaced.

But I have one question, and it might be based on a wrong supposition: I have started up diagbox, and I have tried activating all the actuators, and everything is working, but it says I should feel the high pressure fuel pump vibrating when I activate it, but I can't feel it, but it is buried under a lot of stuff so that could just be me.

Since I heard that that pump gets fed from the fuse box on top of the battery, I thought I'd do some experiments, since I'm seriously considering scrapping the car.

Here I have cut the wires and put some moveable tubes on. With the ignition on All wires except 4 and 6 fluctuate between 10-12V. 4 and 6 have no power.

Here I have cut the wires and put some moveable tubes on. With the ignition on All wires except 4 and 6 fluctuate between 10-12V. 4 and 6 have no power.

Uncoupled 4 and 6 also fluctuate between 10 and 12V like the rest.

Uncoupled 4 and 6 also fluctuate between 10 and 12V like the rest.

This leads me to suspect a short, and since I have heard that some of these wires go to the high pressure fuel pump, is it possible that my problem is not my timing belt but that pump?


I might have done something even more stupid afterwards, since I’m considering scrapping the car. I circumvented the relay/fusebox on the right of the battery and attached the plus on the battery to the slightly thicker white cable on the starter cable, and the engine continues to crank as long as I have the cable attached.
I also have to say that I can’t hear any strange noise from the engine while it is cranking.

Do you think it could be a short?

Diagbox sadly doesn’t tell me anything. I have faults related to a broken external temperature sensor, and an airbag fault, that started when I had to replace a parking break cable a couple of weeks ago. I assume because I uncoupled the driver seat to get to the electrical parking break puller mechanism.

The broken temperature sensor also makes faults in the BSI and ECU

[xantia_v6]

I have moved this post into its own topic as I don't think that the problem is likely to be related to the old topic.

[Steve Walsh]

Before you crank it over again, I would take the top cambelt cover off and check the state of the belt.

[PaulC5]

You could look inside the oil filler point and if you can see a cam shaft, put the car in gear, handbrake off and give the car a push to turn the engine a bit. If the cam shaft turns the belt is probably not broken, it might have jumped a tooth though which this will not check.

[AtraHasis]

I have moved this post into its own topic as I don't think that the problem is likely to be related to the old topic.

I was under the impression I had put this topic under it’s own topic

Can I ask where I posted this?

[AtraHasis]

Before you crank it over again, I would take the top cambelt cover off and check the state of the belt.

I have done that, and I can't say that I see any damage on the belt.
There is a suspicious tiny shiny splinter lying on one of the gears though.

[AtraHasis]

You could look inside the oil filler point and if you can see a cam shaft, put the car in gear, handbrake off and give the car a push to turn the engine a bit. If the cam shaft turns the belt is probably not broken, it might have jumped a tooth though which this will not check.

I will try that. Should the timing belt move together with the camshaft?

[PaulC5]

If you still have the cover off you can see the belt this way without looking in the oil filler neck but you can check all the belt for damage by turning the engine this way. As the belt moves it should turn the cam shaft.

[AtraHasis]

The place my car is currently located is very flat, so I will have to wait ‘till I can have some help actuaæly moving the car, but I noticed that, while I was rocking the car back and forth, that the alternator belt was moving but the timing belt was not

[Paul-R]

That is not a good sign and points towards a snapped/stripped timing belt.

[AtraHasis]

That is not a good sign and points towards a snapped/stripped timing belt.

Damn, then he (the mechanic) was right.
Well It’s good that I checked before I decide if I should scrap it or send it to the garage :-/

Thank you for your help!

[AtraHasis]

That is not a good sign and points towards a snapped/stripped timing belt.

I’m guessing the mechanic is also right about the internals then needing replacing

I don’t feel confident enough to change a camshaft along with what else is broken in there

[AtraHasis]

And I have final conformation: we managed to move the car a foot or two, and the timing belt just moves a tiny bit (like an eighth of an inch) back and forth in tiny “jumps”

[RichardW]

Bad luck - it will have stripped the teeth off, they almost always go like that.

Usually the rebuild involves new cambelt, camshaft and rockers - occasionally they drop a valve which would (probably) mean head off. There are lots of videos on youtube on this rebuild - it's not too hard, so you could give it a go. You could at least strip out the camshaft to see if the valves are intact.

[leithant]

So the rockers are sacrificial to protect the valves, so what happens to damage the cams?