C5x7 3rd time steering leaking

[aerodynamica]

I can confirm that the number of turns lock to lock on both racks is the same. There must be something other on the steering that limits it to 3 turns. Both racks do 3 3/4

So I carried out the modification to the pinion valve housing off Stu's rack, and used the shaft too after confirming the no. teeth etc are the same. The one on the car was also visibly quite worn at the pinion.

I reused the rack body that was on the car because it had the long studs in it already and seemed smoother in operation. So basically made one good unit out the two.

Took the opportunity to fur new inner steering joints too

It's all back in an running for a couple of days, no leaks so far and tracked to almost zero.

See pics for modded shaft, sleeve, 2x seals and circlip going in.

I added an outer groove to help hold the fitting of a rubber boot not seen here.

[aerodynamica]

It's in place, spent some time ensuring the shaft/ pinion were in the right position! The one on Stu's rack certainly wasn't assembled right.

Added new O rings to the pressure and return pipes. Hope they don't leak..

[aerodynamica]

So far, so good. No sign of leaking. Took a while to get the tracking done with the track ace.

Few changes noticed: steering is a bit stiffer. Due to the sleeve, and seals. It doesn't self center. It seems to have loosened off after 2 days but not like it was before

[KennyW]

Graeme,

You have a rare beast, a rack not leaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well done, keeping another C5 X 7 running.

Kenny

[aerodynamica]

Thanks Kenny! Of course, need to monitor it long term. Only after a lengthy trial can the effectiveness of this approach be really known

[Stickyfinger]

So far, so good. No sign of leaking. Took a while to get the tracking done with the track ace.

Few changes noticed: steering is a bit stiffer. Due to the sleeve, and seals. It doesn't self center. It seems to have loosened off after 2 days but not like it was before

Strange, David H was having a similar "not self centring" problem the other day....

[aerodynamica]

So far, so good. No sign of leaking. Took a while to get the tracking done with the track ace.

Few changes noticed: steering is a bit stiffer. Due to the sleeve, and seals. It doesn't self center. It seems to have loosened off after 2 days but not like it was before

Strange, David H was having a similar "not self centring" problem the other day....

Yea, in truth it was never a strong self centerer even when the steering was feeling very loose when it leaked. But the steering was so light that I think I didn't really notice. I think it is in part also caused by the new inner track rod joints. They're very stiff, I assume by design, but they actually make the front ride feel stiffer.

[DHallworth]

When I initially got my car the heavy steering and not self centring was caused by knackered bearings in the FRIP joints.

Someone had fitted cheap nasty ones with ball bearings rather then the needle bearings, I swapped them out for genuine SKF ones and it's been OK for 2 years.

If mine turns out to be the rack that's causing it then it's destined to become baked bean cans I'm afraid.

[aerodynamica]

That's interesting, I replaced the RH frip joint last year and the remaining one certainly needs changed. I'll confess that the one I did replace was with a part that I'm certain had a sealed bearing in it. I actually thought that was an improvement on the factory bearing but perhaps I do need to replace both with better bearings.

[MattBLancs]

Fantastic job!

Most ball joints seem very "tight" when new, I'd not worry till it's had a good amount of use. I'm not sure if the self centre is also a function of the suspension geometry - I remember one of Up N Down's videos he described this (in relation to the wrong wishbone bushes being fitted - think there was an effect on self centring).
I'll try and find it and post a link later,

[MattBLancs]

P.s. didn't realise there were FRIP joints with ball joints in them! Thought the rollers had a degree of axial movement permitted (as part of there design) so it'd need to have that same capacity (i.e. not standard deep groove bearings) otherwise I'd fight against what was driving that up-down movement - presumably the relationship with the ball joint above??

[aerodynamica]

P.s. didn't realise there were FRIP joints with ball joints in them! Thought the rollers had a degree of axial movement permitted (as part of there design) so it'd need to have that same capacity (i.e. not standard deep groove bearings) otherwise I'd fight against what was driving that up-down movement - presumably the relationship with the ball joint above??

I'm not sure Matt, I think it's that the replacement type have a sealed bearing in them. Probablya cheap solution. I seem to recall thinking the frip joint was only acting in relatively horizontal plane and that's why I didn't really think the type of rollers matteted so much. But if David is saying there was a marked difference in the way it worked with the self centering then there might well be something in it. I might just stick the other replacement frip joint in the other side anyway just to tide over (and because I've got the joint just doing nothing in its box) and perhaps change out both of them with the better quality type later on.

I notice this morning the steering and ride have loosened up a bit.

[aerodynamica]

Another detail I didn't show was the use of an outer rubber gaiter fitted over the outside casting and fitted up through the rubber bung in the footwell.

Last time I used CV joint gaiter that was a good fit. That was without cutting off that unused mounting block on the casting. This time I added a groove to help locate the rubber cover and initially intended using the steering rack boot stu supplied. I tried this but couldnt get a solution that allowed it to fit and also go through the footwell aperture and locate there securely. I then returned to the cv boot option and couldn't cut the spare cv boot I have to the right fit. So in the absence of buying a universal cut-to-size type of cv boot, I tried another material... a bit far out but there's a bit of rationale to this: I have a fair amount of roofing felt. This stuff is thin, tough and completely waterproof. I cut a circle in a piece that firs over the shaft and casting and secures with a zip tie in that groove added to the casting. The lot is then pulled up through the footwell and a hole cut to locate over each of the studs fitted in the footwell. Then the rubber bung is pushed back in and the 2 nuts tightened on the studs clamping the lot together. It serves to keep water off the shaft but it's thin enough to let the bung fit back in place.

Again, time will tell how effective it is but I think for now , it'll help prevent new corrosion on the shaft. I didn't bother painting the shaft after all.

[Stickyfinger]

As I understand it the FRIP Joint is an invention of SKF (patented) with exclusive rights to PSA........so anything without the SKF marking will be hookie or it will have incorrect function.

[DHallworth]

My description won’t have helped.

The FRIP joint does the work as a bottom ball joint so I often refer to it using the wrong terminology. They are solid in a vertical direction and allow the job to pivot side to side on the wishbone.

The SKF originals which are expensive are a needle bearing with a waterproof seal over them. The cheaper aftermarket alternatives are a sealed ball bearing which lasts a fraction of the time and on my car when I got it when were notchy and half seized.

I replaced them with a pair of SKF ones and it made a huge difference to the steering feel.