Citroen C5 (X7) Notchy / Jerky steering

[Norris]

Hello experts,

I am new to the forum as I just bought my first Citroen, a 2012 C5 with 220000km.
It had some issues when I bought it, one of them is a notchy/jerky powersteering. So it is not completely gone its just not smooth.

When I got the car, the front end was also at its lowest position and wouldn't rise. That turned out to be a faulty height sensor. Once replaced and calibrated it rises and lowers as it should.

The previous owner replaced the power steering rack (with a better used one), but still the same issue. He got quoted 1500Eur to replace the pump as a next step, thats why he sold it.
I have replaced the power steering pump but it didn't make any difference.
I have bleed the system countless times without any difference.
I have tried using a new battery, didn't make any difference.
I have done the BSI reset, same issue.
If I run the power steering test (simulated at 3000rmp or something like that), the steering is smooth.

Lexia is giving me these fault codes, not sure if any are related.
F303 - BSI configuration fault. I am pretty sure that one turned up while I was testing a new battery.
U2005 - Based on what I have read this can be ignored.
U1213 - I get values for all parameters except Vehicle speed = Value not available. Do not know if that is because the car is stationary/ignition on.
F7D0 - Fotwell lighting control output.

I am a little lost on where to continue looking.
The fact that the power steering test works fine but not once the car is turned on looks to me like it could be something electrical or ground problem?

and...the heated seats do not work but does seem to be a common fault.

Appreciate any help!
Thanks,
Mikael

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi

The 2 most common issues regarding the power steering is air in the system (make sure tyhe vehicle is bled correctly - i.e. suspension must be first raised to hioghest point, then lowered to the lowest setting, remove the LDS cap, then slowly turn steering wheel with engine running lock to lock (slowly) and repeat this 8-10 times without holding the steering wheel at the limits of each turn (so as soon as you encounter the turn limit, start turning the opposite way). Return to normal position switch off engine and allow the 'fizz to dissipate.

The other things to check are the car battery - as the steering is directly operated by the car battery.
Next check the alternator belt is charging properly - if this is loose and the vehicle is not charging correctly, power will start to ebb away and directly affect the power steering performance.
Then check the electrical connections to the power steering pump.
I'll assume the correct rack was fitted as there are 2 variants depending on the engine - each one having a different steering angle.

[Norris]

Thank you for the response Marc!

Do not believe it would be the alternator/Battery as I tested with a brand new one, same thing.
I have followed the bleed procedure multiple times, you could tell the difference when I replaced the power steering pump and did the bleed procedure, it got smoother each time. But it will not go perfectly smooth.

Just test drove the car on a longer journey. At higher speeds the steering gets quite hard/stiff. There is also a fair amount of vibrations coming through the steering wheel/and or front chassi.
Will check the part number on the steering rack to make sure the correct one is fitted. I have a Diesel 2.0L 163bhp automatic with the Aisin 6-speed.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so the system is designed to vary assistance, so expect the steering wheel to firm up at higher speeds.

Let me have your VIN and I'll provide the correct part official number for the rack and confirm steering wheel angle.

[Norris]

Appreciate the help!

Vin VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Will try to get a camera down there to see the part number they installed.

Thanks,
Mikael

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so you should have the 180° Steering rack and not the 184° version for this vehicle with this engine.

(1) Brand New Citroen Rack, original part number was 4001W4, but this was superseded with part number: 9801381480.
The Standard Exchange steering rack part number for this rack is: 1663665280

Don't forget these are the official part numbers and these may vary from what is on the actual rack as those may be manufacturer part numbers. 4001W4 is an internal PSA part number, so probably won't be on the rack. Hopefully you will have one of the others visible, but these are the official part numbers for your specific vehicle. There were many versions of rack produced for the X7, depending on engine type / wheel size left or right hand drive etc.

[Norris]

Well they have installed 96 857 083 80 which I assume is incorrect. It is also manufactured 2008 so it is from an older model.

Did a quick search and It seems to have 9801381480 as an alternative OE number and states that it would fit my car, checked on autodoc.

Also took a video of the notchy/juddering steering wheel.

It is perfectly fine if I run the power steering test in Lexia so what is causing the difference?

Thanks,
Mikael

[GiveMeABreak]

No, totally incorrect Mikael!

Part number 9685708380 is equivalent to PSA part 4001W2 - which is in fact a 184° Steering rack! So you have the incorrect rack fitted and this is likely why you are having problems. I would get that out as quick as you can before you damage the system..... as the car is turning the wheels at a greater angle than they were designed for.

This car, with this engine and setup was designed for a 180° Rack. After market garages are not clued up on all the technical aspects of the vehicles and rely on after-market parts databases that are very often incorrect. If they fitted the wrong one and ordered the incorrect part, then I'd be after them for the work and replacement of the correct rack at no charge and for any damage that has occurred as a result.

[Norris]

Once again, thanks for the help.

Do you have any technical data sheet showing this for 4001w and 4001w2. This would help my claim against the shop. As I said, most sites states that both will fit my car.

Thanks,
Mikael

[GiveMeABreak]

Your VIN is used on the official Citroen parts system that your dealer will use.

This is the part (4001W4) for your vehicle from the VIN:

When I take your VIN off, leaving it unfiltered, you can clearly see 4001W2 is incorrect and a different angle.

[Norris]

Greatly appreciate the help!

I have ordered the correct spare part and will hassle with the work shop to swap it free of charge.

Thanks,
Mikael

[Norris]

Hey Marc,

The workshop didn't want to take any responsibility for the fault so I will attempt the swap myself.
Is there a picture showing which bolts needs to be removed to lower the subframe?

Thanks,
Mikael

[Norris]

Your VIN is used on the official Citroen parts system that your dealer will use.

This is the part (4001W4) for your vehicle from the VIN:



When I take your VIN off, leaving it unfiltered, you can clearly see 4001W2 is incorrect and a different angle.

Hey Marc,
You don't happen to have a guide for subframe removal of my car, the videos I have seen have a different design of the subframe. I would be happy to donate for additional help.

Thanks,
Mikael

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so I've completed the guide specifically for the DW10CTED4 C5 X7 here:

C5 X7 Steel Subframe Removal & Refitting - DW10CTED4 163 Engines Only

[Paul-R]

Out of interest, is there a separate guide for the DW10CTED4 C5 X7 with an ally subframe? Or was that not fitted with those engines?