ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

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MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
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ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

Can anyone give advice on ABS?
Short questions are:
1. ABS not activating and there's no codes in lexia or dash warning after bleeding is it damaged?
2. Is there a speed limit for ABS - I tested on a steep slope at about 25 mph
3. Do I just need to repeat the Lexia ABS bleed process?
4. Is no comms with ESP the clue or red herring?

Background information:
Been working on a neglected 2008 207CC 1.6hdi VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Brake fluid was critically low (pedal to the floor), STOP with 🛑! Lamp and low fluid warning in Lexia - reservoir took about 400ml (after pads replaced).

Replaced pads and bled manually = almost nothing.

Bled with pressure = bit better but not driveable.

Bled with vacuum, slow but mostly just pulled bubbles from the nipple thread.

Bled with vacuum directly from brake pipes = much better, can slow fairly well with spongy pedal but not sharp enough to emergency stop.

Back on lexia to bleed ABS. Global scan says can't identify or communicate with ecu (can't quite remember the message :roll: ). If I click on it I can choose 2 ecu's. First one has ABS in its name and the other has ESP. ESP has 'communication error' (although car has ESP button).
Clicking ABS let's me check faults and Pack Repair let's me bleed brakes. I went through the whole process and while doing the 10 pedal depressions the pedal suddenly became much stiffer and I felt like I was on a winner (and pedal holds so looks like got away with not damaging master cylinder seals).

After completing the process I took the car on to a steep ramp into a local car park as its easy to initiate a skid under 25 mph. The brakes definitely work now.. The car locked up with a skid but no ABS. Also notibly the car did kick out despite travelling in straight line.
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)
PaulC5
Donor 2024
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Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by PaulC5 »

You did not mention replacing the discs as well as the pads. Have you done enough miles for the new pads to bed in, around 100 to 300 depending on how often the brakes are used might be expected. Until they have bed in, braking will not be that good.
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GiveMeABreak
(Donor 2016)
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Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

You have ESP on this vehicle and requires manual bleeding with 2 people and additionally the ESP system needs bleeding with Lexia / Diagbox.

However if you don't have a full chip VCI then you may find the system is not communicating with the ESP ECU, which is likely required before you can complete the operation. It's also likely why you may not be seeing any fault codes from the system as your VCI can't communicate with it....
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
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Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

No discs (yet). I put a new cheap set of front pads only (see below for why). The brakes themselves are fine though, after lots of bleeding I have a firm pedal and plenty of braking force. Just no abs nor any dash warnings or lexia codes.

There's still some meat on the rears but fitting the front pads was just a stop gap to get the car safe enough to move it under it's own steam so I could work on the engine.
One pad was missing(!). Having likely got so thin, it split and fell out, the backing shim was still there with a piston shape burnt through (damaging the piston face slightly but it travels correctly and of course scoring the disc).

So the intention will be to change all 4 discs and change all 4 pads. Change the piston too of course. But can't see why ABS shouldn't engage or at least warn me.
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)
MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
x 14

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 03 Aug 2024, 23:15 You have ESP on this vehicle and requires manual bleeding with 2 people and additionally the ESP system needs bleeding with Lexia / Diagbox.

However if you don't have a full chip VCI then you may find the system is not communicating with the ESP ECU, which is likely required before you can complete the operation. It's also likely why you may not be seeing any fault codes from the system as your VCI can't communicate with it....
Posted same time as you did so missed it.

That's a possibility. I didn't get it from easy diagnostics but I'm fairly sure the internals do match the full chip rev C. When I bought it a few years ago I had a sudden death on 5th use and seller attempted remote support before replacing so seemed to be a decent supplier. It's able to run a dpf regen, calibrate self levelling lights on a C8, program immobiliser if that's any guide to it's hardware
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)
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GiveMeABreak
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 42019
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6955

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

ESP ECUs are the ones' that generally will not communicate if there's an interface issue. Without looking at decent quality pictures of each side of the 2 boards I won't be able to confirm of course.
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
x 14

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

Hi Marc,

I think I'll hope it's a duff scanner, seems like the easiest fix!
20240804_172039.jpg
20240804_172126.jpg
20240804_172150.jpg
20240804_172234.jpg
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 42019
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6955

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

Leave it with me - have a few things to sort and will take a look later.
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
x 14

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

Did you get a chance to have a glance at those pics Marc?
I know you're a busy man so not rushing.

Just had a thought, when I'm home I better check diagbox version. Used to be 7.57 but I did wipe and refresh so not sure if it's a lower version now
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 42019
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6955

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so a mixed bag here, as in some places it looks to be ok, but on other boards there does appear to be missing parts:


On this board there seems to be a connector missing and some missing components where I have circled.
mister VCI board A.PNG
mister connector.PNG


This is where there is supposed to be a 10k resistor that is missing on the left and where it should be on the right:
mister  VCI 10k Resistor missing.PNG
mister 10k.PNG

So although a slightly different board, there does seem to be some missing components, but not as many as I've seen on other boards that are missing way more.
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
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GiveMeABreak
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Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
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Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

I've added some comparisons on the 2 areas that I picked up on ^
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
MixerFistit
(Donor 2023)
Posts: 177
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 14:45
x 14

Re: ABS not activating (no codes). System bled.

Unread post by MixerFistit »

You have a great attention to detail!

I may solder those resistors on just to see how it goes. I'll have a look where it goes first maybe linked to the missing connector so may only be for programming purposes
307 CC 2.0 HDI

Sold/dead
Mk1 Dispatch 06 Face lift - 2.0 HDI - RHZ (sold)
2x xsara picasso 1.6 HDi
2x mk1 C4 Pic and a mk1 C4 GP
1x mk2 C4 Pic
C8 2.2.hdi (6 seat Exc) van/can
207cc 1.6 hdi (project)