DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

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biohead
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DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

I'm troubleshooting an issue with my 2017 DS5 VIN: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] left hand wing mirror.
It's a UK spec Prestige model, so has electronic folding and blind spot monitoring.

Symptoms are that the folding mechanism doesn't work at all (no movement at all, no noises made, no attempt to move) and there is no life for the blind spot LED on that side. The mirror adjustment works fine.
The right hand side mirror (UK drivers side) works fine for folding and blind spot.

Using a generic code reader there are no faults detected. I have a new Diagbox clone interface on its way to me just incase that detects a fault code but I doubt it.

Is anyone able to locate a wiring diagram? I think the first place to start is the connectors in the door, I want to see if there's power coming through before looking at replacement mirrors. The blind spot function and no sign of life from the motor is what's making me think its a connector or power issue, rather than a failed/damaged mirror.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I may be stating the obvious, but we had a case of this recently and the member didn't realise that somebody has deactivated the fold back option via the control pad. So double check that these are active before checking.

Not sure how you are checking blind spot fault as it's only supposed to light up when passing a vehicle, so can't be tested when stationary...

It won't work in the following conditions either:

- in the presence of immobile objects (parked vehicles, barriers, street lamps, road signs, etc.),
- with vehicles moving in the opposite direction,
- driving on a winding road or a sharp corner,
- when overtaking or being overtaken by a very long vehicle (lorry, bus, etc.) which is also in the rear blind spot and present in the driver's front field of vision,
- when overtaking quickly,
- in very heavy traffic: vehicles detected in front and behind are confused with a lorry or a stationary object.

In either case, if there is a fault, the system will generally warn you of a malfunction via message or a lamp. The system also can temporarily fail in bad whether - especially rain / spray as this can interfere with the blind spot sensors which are in the outer edges of the front and rear bumpers.

The other thing to check is that underneath the driver's control pad, there are a series of electrical plugs for the various systems. With the doors closing and shutting over time, the vibration can loosen the plugs until they are not making proper contact or have fallen out. It may be worth checking these too as it happened to me when I lost control of my folding mirrors, with the other functions working, after it had been in for some work and they must of slammed the door too hard shut!
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Marc
biohead
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

The drivers door mirror (UK - RHS) functions fine - both blind spot and folding functions, it's only the passenger mirror that shows these issues.
Using the manual fold option gives the same behaviour as when locking the car - only the drivers side moves.
It looks like there's a single fuse covering both mirrors, but each has it's own relay. I'm not sure the relay would affect the blind spot function though.

Blind spot is a lot more difficult to test, but when out on suitable roads, I've not seen the passenger side light up once when I would expect it to - again the drivers side works as expected. There's no fault message on the screen, and nothing on my generic OBD reader. I've got a new Diagbox VCI on it's way to me, but I have that feeling that won't find anything either.

If the mirror itself is "dumb" (i.e no ECU inside it), that makes me think it's a power issue or similar, as the failure is beyond the stage the car can detect it and report it.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

In this case, the problem is almost certainly associated with either the electrical connector in the driver's door control module as I mentioned previously, or there is likely to be a wire that is damaged in between the driver's door loom as it enters the A pillar. This is a weak spot that causes fatigue over time with opening and closing the doors. To check that you'll need to open the protective cable tunnelling in the door aperture and check the wires for breaks. Ditto for the passenger side if nothing is found there (although mostly this happens more on the driver's side for obvious reasons).

All the passenger side functions are controlled from the driver's door control pad module, so this is still the most likely place. Ignore fuses, that won't be it as neither would work if this was the case.
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Marc
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

There is something loose in the drivers door. You only really hear it when you open/close the door, never when driving, but towards the rear of the door. To me, it sounds like a plastic plug is loose, but as the car is still new and under warranty.

I'm letting the selling garage look first before I dive in to removing trim. Thanks for the heads up on the wiring - I'll give that a check when it's back in my hands too.
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If under warranty - take it back and let them do it - it shouldn't take them long to get the door card off and have a hunt about, but there shouldn't be anything loose in there.
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Marc
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

Is there a drivers control module within the door on the DS5, or is it elsewhere?
The windows are all controlled in the center console, and the mirror adjustment next to the speedo.

The rattle seems to be coming more from the handle area rather than inside the door card, another thing to get them to look at!
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I don't have the detail for this vehicle as it's a late model DS-Badged vehicle, and some of the detail is missing.

The central console has a large switch block module that has all the window controls, instead of on the door pad - sorry to misdirect you, I was dealing with a similar issue for another member and got brain drain.

This diagram would be the latest I have for the mirrors - I can't see it changing that much before the production run ended to be honest:

Image

6406 : rear view mirror control
6416 : right hand exterior rear view mirror
6411 : left hand exterior rear view mirror
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Marc
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

Thanks Marc. There must be a slight difference as I have all 6 wires connected on both plugs on my left hand mirror, but it was a big help to trace the wiring.
Managed to remove the door card and mirror cover - there's 12v where and when expected at the plug in the door, and traced that further on into the mirror, so almost certainly a duff motor.

I did sign up for an hour with service.citroen.com (DS brand) but couldn't find any electrical diagrams on there. Hopefully it's given me the right part no. I need!
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The reason for that is wires 6433a and 6434a on the 6416 right hand mirror above in the diagram are for the external temperature sensor contained in only one of the mirrors. So there is only supposed to be one mirror with this connection. Probably a RHD / LHD issue.

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Marc
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by biohead »

I got that from the diagram, but taking the mirror apart showed there is no sensor in the Left mirror - and the "nub" underneath is present on the Right mirror (what I assume to be the temperature sensor - it was for the C4 and C5).
But all 6 positions on the connector are wired all the way to the mirror. It's a pretty well sealed unit once you get to the motor and it hides most of that wiring, so troubleshooting stopped there and I'm going to leave it to the selling garage now.

The part number was what I managed to get hold of from service.citroen.com using the DS subscription - as it's a DS branded car I wasn't sure if the donation here covers them yet:
At present, we are going to provide this service for Peugeot and Citroen marques, although this will include the Citroen-badged DS3, DS4 & DS5 vehicles. We will consider extending this to DS-badged vehicles at a later date should the demand increase.
Even having access to the DS subscription didn't clarify entirely. The part no. was 1616750980... but looking on eBay that seems to come in 4 wire and 6 wire variants. :lol:
The LED on the mirror glass (blind spot function) does connect to some wiring - that vanishes behind the motor. With hindsight, I should've tried for continuity to see if they connect direct to the plug or if it's all controlled internal to the mirror. Thinking aloud, as the feature can be turned off inside the car, surely that function must be multiplexed.
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Re: DS5 Wing Mirror wiring diagram

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If you're referring to the blind spot monitoring - all that is in the mirror is the diode that lights up when commanded. The actual system is managed and controlled via the multiplexed parking assistance ECU, as the Blind spot monitoring uses only the outer sensors on the front and rear bumpers for detection.

Back to the mirror, so only the mirror with the external temp sensor fitted will have the 6 wires as they are only fitted on one mirror. The other mirror should have these 2 wires missing as per the diagram / but mirrors may be transposed for RHD / LHD models.

1616750980 is correct for the left side mirror as this is for vehicles from 1 February 2016 on and the only one compatible with Blind Spot System. Parts are hit and miss for DS-Badged versions and it depends, but on your DS 5 the number you have provided is correct. It's about £460 new.
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Marc