MOT Advisories

[froggy]

Hi, my S2 Xantia. latest MOT Advisories say, front play in steering rack inner joints. is this something that I could do, I guess the parts come from a motor factor? just wondering how difficult the job is and would I need any special tools? cheers Terry.

[Jay-Bruce]

Not done inner track rods on a Xantia specifically, however,, assuming they are similar to most other racks the inner trackrod end is removed by removing the steering rack gator, then unscrewing the "socket" part of the inner track rod end's balljoint from the rack. This isn't too difficult if there is room. Where the fun begins is taking the outer track rod end off the hub, typically they are taper shouldered pins going into the hub, with a nyloc nut that will either want to undo the pin when you try to undo the not, leaving it spinning; OR, you get the nut off, but cannot extract the pin from the hub. You need a balljoint splitter or this, well maybe not need, but will definitely benefit from one. Something like this is an absolute game changer for a hobbyist mechanic:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314254997482?

If you find yourself with the outer track rod end coming free of the taper when you are undoing the nut, but the nut isn't fully undone, so when you go to undo the nut you end up spinning the pin even more, you have options:

• Grinder, slice the pin between the hub and the nut

• Use the ball joint splitter in reverse to press the pin into the taper so you can undo the nut

• use a nutsplitter to cut the nut off the threads: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283638280879

• SOME balljoint manufacturers put a hex socket in the end of the threaded section of the pin, if your track rods have that, put an fallen key in the socket and spanner the nut off

Some, if not all ball joints have spanner flats contained within the rubber gator. Since you're discarding the tod end, cut the gator off and put a spanner on the flats to stop the pin turning when you set about undoing the nyloc nut

Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly, but after you've buttoned it back up, the final step is to get the vehicles tracking done.

[Jay-Bruce]

The price of the tools I recommended above are about a fifth of what a garage would charge you to do the job.

[CitroJim]

Not done inner track rods on a Xantia specifically, however,, assuming they are similar to most other racks the inner trackrod end is removed by removing the steering rack gator, then unscrewing the "socket" part of the inner track rod end's balljoint from the rack. This isn't too difficult if there is room.

That's how they are in a Xantia Jay... Exactly that... The big issue is room in that there's not a lot of it...

I've done a few. You ideally need a special tool to hold and undo the balljoint cup (socket) but a high quality pair of 'Stilsons' or 'Footprints' will do if you can get them in there... The cup can be screwed in very tightly and can put up a good fight. It's not a job for inferior or inappropriate tools.

With the rack out on the bench the job is a lot, lot easier... After the struggles of doing them in-situ I'd be in favour of taking a bit more time and removing the rack from the car. Not so difficult as it might first seem. This is especially so if it's the one on the ram side.

Be aware there's two sizes of arms. One for the smaller sized engine models and a bigger one used on the large engine models. They are not interchangeable...

Hope Jay and I have been of some help here Terry...

[MattBLancs]

The track rod end outer ball joints I've experienced so far have ball joint under the connection, so a spinning taper can be assisted by putting the jack head under the ball joint to increase the friction. Don't need to actually lift the car like this! Say 50mm or so of suspension compression is generally enough. Try it, still spinning = another pump on the jack, try again, repeat as necessary.

Worth also noting the best things to do are also obvious, but sometimes don't seem key steps:

Wire brush exposed threads first, clearing any crud out reduces the forces required on the nut.

If begins to bind up, reverse the ratchet and tighten back up again, then loosen again. Especially if had added some lubrication this work the lubricant down into the nut.

Don't hit the threaded end of the ball joint directly if wanting to use it again, thread far too easily damaged. Commonly e.g. M10 fine thread, so not in a "standard" tap and die set.
Can put a pin punch in the (Allen or Torx) recess in top of the thread and hit the punch to save the thread. Can also put the Nyloc nut on loosely, hit that. Only fairly gently though, more violent can strip threads out of the nut.

Jack under the hub (not track rod end now!) Minimises bounce in the hub when you are hitting it.

There's lots of folks recon hitting the joint sideways seems to shock them free. I've not yet remembered to try that to see if it works!

[CitroJim]

Some good tips Matt

There's lots of folks recon hitting the joint sideways seems to shock them free. I've not yet remembered to try that to see if it works!

One hammer won't often work but the old double-hammer technique does Matt. Two big hammers. Hit them simultaneously each side of the joint and job's a good 'un

It takes a bit of practice to get the blows from both hammers perfectly synchronised but once acquired, using a pair of matched club hammers can succeed where a proper splitter tool has failed...

It works well on Xanta lower swivels where even the best scissors-type splitters can struggle

And no risk of damaging the rubber boots as a bonus...

[froggy]

Thanks, thats a great help, cheers Terry.

[Dormouse]

You might want to consider these tools which clamp over the inner joint nut and are driven by a long extension and a ratchet/power bar.

[Jay-Bruce]

You might want to consider these tools which clamp over the inner joint nut and are driven by a long extension and a ratchet/power bar.

OOOHHH!!!! Shiny!!!

Didn't know of those tools, probably going to push the button on those now...

[Dormouse]

The black 3/8" one is a bit hard on extension bars and ratchets. Better to use 1/2" with a good quality (Snap On ? ) 3/8th adapter on the end.

[CitroJim]

Didn't know of those tools, probably going to push the button on those now...

I don't recall them so freely available or so reasonably priced a few years back... Good find Dave!

One thing I'd advise is the ballcups on Xantia steering rack are somewhat larger than many and it would be wise to check these tools are big enough to do the job.

The last time I did this around 6 or 7 years ago at least, similar tools were available, much more expensively, but none opened big enough for a Xantia... Hence the Stilsons!

Be worth checking the sizes on your fleet too Jay, before hitting that button

[MattBLancs]

Can't help but look at the black one and think, "hmm, repurposed exhaust clamp and bit of ingenuity..." (But then again, for the sake of ~£8?)

Are these compact enough to extract the inner track rod ball joint in situ (versus the Stiltons needing rack removal to get a clear swing on it) ?

[Dormouse]

The exhaust clamp thought isn't far away but you need a stouter base than folded steel. Trust me. My idea was to make the square drive bit from welded up plate steel with both wings slotted/ open ended to fit the U clamp of your choice. The U clamp needs to be fairly snug but only clamps and the plate steel bit needs a strong 1/2" socket plus serrations to give grip and drive.
You can have that design idea on me.

[MattBLancs]

Ah, sounds like I'm underestimating the torque required, from your description plus the need for a quality Snap On reducer (else likely to have a snap off reducer! **) It's much more in the wrestling off with a big mean Stiltons territory than I thought.

( ** You can have the corny joke on me, too!)

[Jay-Bruce]

a quality Snap On reducer (else likely to have a snap off reducer! **)

I like that... Although normally we say snap-on, rip-off!