Mannol Coolant Antifreeze - possible fake counterfeit

[aspire_helen]

This week I bought some rather cheap Mannol G12+ Ready to Use Coolant (4212), from a trusted Ebay seller. It arrived in a Mannol branded box and the 5litre containers were sealed with foil. The first thing I did was to unseal one container and test it with a brand new refractometer (calibrated with de-ionised water). The result was only -9degsC !! (see photo). It may indicate excessive dilution ie fake. If it is not fake, I suggest Mannol are marketing a product unsuitable for a Europe climate.

Using the same refractometer, I also tested my C5's coolant (last replaced approx 10 years ago) at -27degsC, and I tested a friend's Clio at -29degsC. I also tested some Halfords ready to use winter screen wash at approx -30degsC (on the screen wash scales).

I have contacted both Mannol.uk and Mannol HQ in Germany, asking what the minimum temperature for G12+ 4212 should be. I await their responses.

Has anyone else got some Mannol coolant and tested it? One thing to note is that Mannol's own literature does not specify a minimum operating temperature for their G12+ 4212, but it does for other products, as do other manufacturers (eg -30 or -40).

[bobins]

Here's possibly some older packaging that shows its temperature range from -30°C to +125°C

Mannol G12 - Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MANNOL-Coolant ... B07HGZSNW3

[earlsgate]

got some AF12 this time last year for two cambelt jobs which was sold as concentrated from the authorised ebay seller https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303573046353. Diluted it 50/50 and the tester shows -20C which seems fair enough. I would imagine head office would back up their appointed sellers but it seems underhand, to some extent, for the product labelling not be making the protection clear on the picture you have attached and anything above -20C is not suitable really for winter use so would seek a refund as a faulty product

[MattBLancs]

There's a QR code bottom right on the label marked "see more online" - if you follow that, is there any minimum temperature information on wherever that takes you?

[bobins]

There's nothing in the technical specs nor MSDS that even comes close to mentioning the min/max temps. It does seem a little odd that they'll market a product that doesn't say what it actually does

[aspire_helen]

Bobins et al
I looked at your link to the Mannol G12+ currently on sale on Amazon. It is evident that the front and rear photos in that ad are not the same container!! The rear specifies "4212" (which is Mannol's current designation), but the front omits it. However, if G12+ was previously marketed as "-30degsC", then it would be reasonable to assume that the current product, with almost identical labelling should also be -30. I agree that no reputable company would market -9, hence I conclude it is counterfeit. I have not stated that as such to Mannol. If they are reputable they should react strongly.
When I bought some Bose headphones on Ebay I checked them with Bose's online fraud department . Bose confirmed that the codified serial number reflected a manufacture date in the future, so were counterfeit. Bose took it very seriously to protect their own product reputation. Of course, a sealed fluid container could contain anything.

I have found reference to fake oil on Mannol's Facebook page ( and a Youtube video indicating that genuine Mannol oil containers have a counterfeit-proof foil sticker (How To Identify Genuine MANNOL - YouTube).

[earlsgate]

seems like this product is not fit for its intended purpose and as its an Ebay purchase use the refund policy for a return fully at their expense. https://pages.ebay.co.uk/ebay-money-back-guarantee/.

[aspire_helen]

One thing I forgot to add....it is illegal to post counterfeit items through the Royal Mail, even to return them. In fact, counterfeit items should not be returned to the supplier. I will members know when I get a reply from Mannol.

[aspire_helen]

Prepare to be astounded. I have heard back from MANNOL-uk "sales" today. The headline is that they state that my G12+ antifreeze is not fake, but that MANNOL G12+ MN4212 has a freezing point of only -8degsC and is hence "sufficient for the UK climate". But, read on, there's more.
Furthermore, they state that the G12+ item on Amazon (courtesy of Bobins - note the G12+ label says -30degsC, but does not give a part number) is part number MN4012 and is a different concentrated version. However, looking at the MANNOL.de website, MN4012 is designated "AF12+", not G12+. So they cannot even get their products straight.
Moreover, I had to ask 3 times for the freezing point. They then made their next mistake. Rather than just telling me, they emailed me the TDS (Technical Data Sheet) for MN4212, in which it finally revealed a freezing point of -8degsC. BUT, big BUT. A TDS is also downloadable from the MANNOL.de website, but is DIFFERENT to the one they emailed me. The downloadable TDS for MN4212 has no performance data let alone a freezing point. Indeed, NOWHERE on the MANNOL.de website, nor in any sales literature, nor any product labelling can I find the freezing point for G12+ MN4212. It seems they dont want us to know it is only -8degsC.
By the way, MetOffice statistics show that extreme lows of -10 to -20degsC occur even in Oxfordshire and Shropshire, let alone Scotland! Some years ago, my C5 recorded -14degsC one morning in Nottingham!!
Finally, is there any way of polling members with the question "Would you put -8degsC antifreeze in your car?"
My lesson is DONT TRUST MANNOL PRODUCTS.
I have advised MANNOL-uk that as a consumer I feel misled and have requested they authorise a refund from the supplier.

[myglaren]

I wonder if Trading Standards would take an interest.

[bobins]

I have to agree that this one might be one for trading standards. I can't see how they can sell it as antifreeze when there's no reasonable expectation that it'll provide adequate freezing protection in just about any part of the mainland UK. Summer coolant ? maybe, but antifreeze - nope ! At the very least it needs to be re-labelled on the packaging to say that it only provides protection down to -8°C.

[aspire_helen]

I have already contacted Trading Standards (West Northants) on the assumption it must be fake!! By coincidence, both the Ebay supplier and MANNOL-uk are based in Northampton. Unfortunately, TS now appear to direct all consumer enquiries to Citizens Advice, so I am not holding my breath! In the meantime, I await a response from MANNOL HQ in Germany. I can only think I have been dealing with a sales assistant at MANNOL-uk.

[aspire_helen]

A bit more info. I have just spent the last hour on a website search for common budget suppliers and their advertised freezing point. ALL are labelled “ready to use” or “ready mixed”. NONE are labelled “concentrate”. Only Halfords and ASDA are own brands. B&M Bargains sells RAC. Other makes are Prestone/Holts(typical), Bluecol/Car Plan and Diall.
MANNOL G12+ MN4212 -8
ASDA -17
SAINSBURYS -36
TESCO -36
MORRISONS -36
HALFORDS -34
B&Q -34
Trade point -16
Screwfix -37
Eurocarparts -36
B&M Bargains -34

[Lenny]

The only Mannol product I've used was their aerosol brake cleaner.
I normally expect brake cleaner to have that nice, addictive, chemical orange sort of whiff but the Mannol stuff smelled like watered down cellulose thinners.
No surprise then to find it performed like watered down cellulose thinners by stripping paint off various parts wonderfully but struggled to shift anything greasy.
Don't think I'll bother again thanks.

[ozvtr]

The whole anti freeze manufacturing industry is a rip-off!
I have a rant over on the Citroen C3 owners site about it.
The MSDS (section 3) for this product says the Ethylene Glycol (Ehtanediol) content is between 20.6-26.1%. That will stop water from freezing to a point between (drum roll please) about -8 and -10 degrees Celsius!
From what I can see on the packaging, the manufacture now makes no claim as to the protection against "freezing". It is "antifreeze" as it does contain Ethylene Glycol. And it will stop the engine coolant freezing at a point where water would (normally) freeze.
In the good-ol-dayz, car manufacturers recommended a minimum of 33% Ethylene Glycol. But car manufactures today are tight-liped and only recommend their product (what ever that might be?).
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER buy premixed antifreeze unless you like giving money away!
The largest constituent of premixed "antifreeze" is...WATER! You can buy distilled water from the supermarket for (about) 50p a litre. So how much did you pay for a few hundred mls of Glycol?
Buy 100% Ethylene Glycol concentrate (+ corrosion inhibitor) from the auto store, and demineralized water from the supermarket (DONT buy it from the auto shop!!!!!!). Mix them in the concentration suitable for you. Typical industry recommendations are 33% and 50% (about -17 and -35 degrees C protection respectively). It's not hard.
AND...If you live in a place where there is no chance of the coolant in your engine freezing...DONT BUY ANTIFREEZE! Again, buy 100% corrosion inhibitor and distilled water! Mix it up yourself and save money.
Then you know whats in your cooling system and you weren't ripped off!!
If you insist on buying premixed antifreeze, read the label on the bottle. It should say that it contains a minimum of about 330 grams per litre of Glycol. Or go on line and read the MSDS. If there is nothing on the bottle...WHY? Don't you have a right to know what you are buying?