Citroen C5 Mk1 2.2 hdi needing "some" care

[MattBLancs]

There's a copy of it here with me, I can take some pictures if you're desperate.

Sorry, didn't think about your location/ postage challenges

[yoseff]

There's a copy of it here with me, I can take some pictures if you're desperate.

Sorry, didn't think about your location/ postage challenges

Thanks a lot.
The mechanic has a lot of experience with many engines , and i trust him (also friend for many years). I was just a bit worried that could be some "details" on the 2.2 engine that he may not know, as citroen sometimes do "weird" stuff

Found here in the computer (forgot that had that ) a Spanish workshop manual for the c5 that has also the 2.2 engine. Will have a look on it to se if there's something out of the extraordinary to share with him.
He also has Autodoc
I'll let you know if some doubt appears on the process.
By the way , your 2.2 is 170 hp originally? (Biturbo) Or was that result of a remap? (Edit - Saw now that is the 2.2 C5 X7 , so original, i guess)
Anyway , thanks for the help

[MattBLancs]

Yes it's the later engine in an X7 so is 173 bhp from factory.

So this scary assembly lurks behind the engine!

Two turbos entwined in a romantic embrace!

(I have bought a second hand spare pair!)

[yoseff]

Yes it's the later engine in an X7 so is 173 bhp from factory.

So this scary assembly lurks behind the engine!


(I have bought a second hand spare pair!)

That's some big pair of a turbo

Was almost buying one Mk1 (facelift) with the 2.2 biturbo , but got a bit afraid of the "Biturboness" , regarding to possible repair costs
Imagine that driving it will be very pleasant.

[yoseff]

Small update on the 2.2 works: Got an original (Citroen) timing belt kit. Should arrive tomorrow.
Probably buying water pump and accessories belt today.
Let's see if tomorrow is the day all that is changed.
Honestly , i suspect that the timing belt was never changed , so it may have 230k km and 19 years... Scary

[MattBLancs]

That's some big pair of a turbo

Was almost buying one Mk1 (facelift) with the 2.2 biturbo , but got a bit afraid of the "Biturboness" , regarding to possible repair costs
Imagine that driving it will be very pleasant.

Yes, I'm afraid of that aspect too! When I saw a pair of second hand turbo's languishing on eBay for weeks with no buyer, I put in a "cheeky" best offer of £40 and was delighted when seller was glad to see back of them even at that price, so they're sat in my garage hopefully never to be required! Supposedly possible to get them out in situ, but looks more like engine out territory to me!

When it's running (see my thread viewtopic.php?t=71261 for why I am saying that!) it is a fantastic engine. The X7 is a big heavy car but the 2.2 throws it down the road beautifully. I've not really got into the groove of it yet, so not making comment on economy side if things just yet.

19 years on one belt - I've too much mechanical sympathy, don't think I could handle the stress of running like that!

[Hell Razor5543]

My C5 is the facelift, with a bi-turbo and (when new, 173HP). She does shift, especially when you go over 2,700RPM (when the second turbo kicks in). Great fun, but heavy on the fuel (unless you are driving sensibly on the motorways, when the fuel consumption improves considerably!).

[MattBLancs]

(unless you are driving sensibly on the motorways, when the fuel consumption improves considerably!).

Yes, trying a bit if this at present, dial the speed down a touch and 65mph cruise control wafting along.

Too many middle lane morons needing bypassing - causing me to wake the other turbo and storm past!

[Hell Razor5543]

Mine also has the 'Sport' button, which increases the fun and the fuel consumption. If the nearside lane is clear I will quite happily stay in it, passing the middle lane hoggers.

[yoseff]

That's some big pair of a turbo

Was almost buying one Mk1 (facelift) with the 2.2 biturbo , but got a bit afraid of the "Biturboness" , regarding to possible repair costs
Imagine that driving it will be very pleasant.

Yes, I'm afraid of that aspect too! When I saw a pair of second hand turbo's languishing on eBay for weeks with no buyer, I put in a "cheeky" best offer of £40 and was delighted when seller was glad to see back of them even at that price, so they're sat in my garage hopefully never to be required! Supposedly possible to get them out in situ, but looks more like engine out territory to me!

When it's running (see my thread viewtopic.php?t=71261 for why I am saying that!) it is a fantastic engine. The X7 is a big heavy car but the 2.2 throws it down the road beautifully. I've not really got into the groove of it yet, so not making comment on economy side if things just yet.

19 years on one belt - I've too much mechanical sympathy, don't think I could handle the stress of running like that!

Wow! Did read the entire thread on your saga with the C5... That was mind-blowing. Hope the car continues to start normally now.

Had also a situation with my 2.0Hdi long ago , but it was that it would turn off the engine when more acceleration was required. Not funny to discover while overtaking and with a truck coming in the opposite direction.
Long story short , after changing a few things , like tank pump , injectors, fuel filter , one part from the high pressure diesel pump and the pressure sensor - finally , it was the high pressure diesel pump (Fitted a bad second hand one , but then had to get a refurbished one from Bosh - Problem finally solved)

I just got the 2.2 recently , and as i could not get any evidence of the belt being changed , i'm assuming it is the original one, and that's one of the main reasons i'm not using the car yet - dont want to risk. It will just be driven to the mechanic , and then belt(s) changed. Got an original timing belt kit (at a good value - probably some stock clearance) a Dolz water pump and a Dayco accessory belt (I think the original is also Dayco).
Now it's just a mater of the friend mechanic get some time to work on it

Did a lot of km last year on a X7 C5 2.0 tourer 163 (working car) and it's engine seems already "good enough" for it's weight. Imagine that the added 10 horses , and specially the extra torque on the biturbo , will make it even more pleasant to use.

By the way, Hdi-Tuning (not trying to "advertise" it, but Steve, AFAIK, is expert on Hdi's finetuning) seems to do wonderful things on those two engines too. 2.0 163 goes to 190 / 420Nm and the Biturbo goes to 200 / 400Nm
The older 2.2 Mk1 goes "just" from 133 to 170 / 370Nm (On the "Stage 1") , but is also (4kg) lighter than the X7 (According to auto-data website specs).

[yoseff]

My C5 is the facelift, with a bi-turbo and (when new, 173HP). She does shift, especially when you go over 2,700RPM (when the second turbo kicks in). Great fun, but heavy on the fuel (unless you are driving sensibly on the motorways, when the fuel consumption improves considerably!).

Out of curiosity, does that 2.2 also have the swirl valve like mine?

[MattBLancs]

Wow! Did read the entire thread on your saga with the C5... That was mind-blowing. Hope the car continues to start normally now.

Had also a situation with my 2.0Hdi long ago , but it was that it would turn off the engine when more acceleration was required. Not funny to discover while overtaking and with a truck coming in the opposite direction.
Long story short , after changing a few things , like tank pump , injectors, fuel filter , one part from the high pressure diesel pump and the pressure sensor - finally , it was the high pressure diesel pump (Fitted a bad second hand one , but then had to get a refurbished one from Bosh - Problem finally solved)

I just got the 2.2 recently , and as i could not get any evidence of the belt being changed , i'm assuming it is the original one, and that's one of the main reasons i'm not using the car yet - dont want to risk. It will just be driven to the mechanic , and then belt(s) changed. Got an original timing belt kit (at a good value - probably some stock clearance) a Dolz water pump and a Dayco accessory belt (I think the original is also Dayco).
Now it's just a mater of the friend mechanic get some time to work on it

Did a lot of km last year on a X7 C5 2.0 tourer 163 (working car) and it's engine seems already "good enough" for it's weight. Imagine that the added 10 horses , and specially the extra torque on the biturbo , will make it even more pleasant to use.

By the way, Hdi-Tuning (not trying to "advertise" it, but Steve, AFAIK, is expert on Hdi's finetuning) seems to do wonderful things on those two engines too. 2.0 163 goes to 190 / 420Nm and the Biturbo goes to 200 / 400Nm
The older 2.2 Mk1 goes "just" from 133 to 170 / 370Nm (On the "Stage 1") , but is also (4kg) lighter than the X7 (According to auto-data website specs).

Thank you, yes it's behaving at present - will be cross my fingers time again shortly as off to work in it again today. Was fine Monday and Tuesday but not really in a comfortable position till I have turned the key.


I have wondered about remaps previously (particularly on my 306 HDi - was good fun as standard but always felt a bit more Go would be even better. Never got around to it) but would be somewhat concerned about the gearbox on the 2.2 with extra torque to contend with - to me it's telling there was never a manual V6 HDi option (auto only) nor when the later 2.2 was updated from factory to 200bhp that too was auto only (e.g. 508 GT I think can have that option)

The 407 V6 HDi was "dressed up" sporty, 18 inch wheels, body kit I think, etc but then auto only.
407 coupe even more so, yes is a GT not a back road carving machine but still think a manual gearbox is conspicuously absent there. Likewise the 508 GT.

Personally just don't like automatics so rules a few cars out for me!

Not sure about swirl flaps on this, will need to have a dig into it to find out.

Dayco I'd no problem with, reputable brand I think.
Not heard of Dolz, so can't comment there. Given the lack of maintenance are you seeking a good cooling system flush and new coolant with the pump (and belt) change?

Edit: quotes went wrong, hopefully fixed as to who said what!

[Hell Razor5543]

My C5 is the facelift, with a bi-turbo and (when new, 173HP). She does shift, especially when you go over 2,700RPM (when the second turbo kicks in). Great fun, but heavy on the fuel (unless you are driving sensibly on the motorways, when the fuel consumption improves considerably!).

Out of curiosity, does that 2.2 also have the swirl valve like mine?

I do not know.

[yoseff]

This is the Swirl Valve on the old 2.2 engine like mine. Took the photos from the internet (Dont remember where from - probably this or other forum). This was a few of the photos that helped me to understand better what to look for and where to find (one of the) problem (s)
It's vacuum controlled and opens around 2000 rpm

[yoseff]

MattBLancs , the fact of being automatic box , may explain why HdiTuning goes "only" to 400 Nm of torque on your 2.2 and a bit above on the 2.0 Hdi (163)
Yes , new water pump and flush on the entire system , as that car was quite a bit neglected.