C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[CitroJim]

That's so frustrating Matt Feeling your pain there...

Might be well worth a new starter and a full check of the integrity of connections and wiring to it... Especially as when the starter is not in the equation all seems good...

Some diesels are really fussy of their cranking speed and if yours was both slow and taking excess current causing a voltage sag to the electronics then that might account for it... Low volts into the engine ECU might make it just unhappy enough to cause the cough.. die...

One last test might be to jump using a very large, well-charged battery in parallel with the car's own and seeing if that makes any difference...

At risk of going over old ground and egg-sucking... You are certain the battery and its connections and heavy earth to the engine is good?

Fingers crossed the true root cause soon makes itself known

[MattBLancs]

That's so frustrating Matt Feeling your pain there...

Might be well worth a new starter and a full check of the integrity of connections and wiring to it... Especially as when the starter is not in the equation all seems good...

Think is a speed of turning over issue.

Some diesels are really fussy of their cranking speed and if yours was both slow and taking excess current causing a voltage sag to the electronics then that might account for it... Low volts into the engine ECU might make it just unhappy enough to cause the cough.. die...

One last test might be to jump using a very large, well-charged battery in parallel with the car's own and seeing if that makes any difference...

At risk of going over old ground and egg-sucking... You are certain the battery and its connections and heavy earth to the engine is good?

Fingers crossed the true root cause soon makes itself known

Happy to go over old ground more than once if we unearth the issue!

Quick summary of the old ground:

Starter has been apart and slight clean up commutator, regressed. Brushes not new but not down to nothing. Not touched solenoid and wondered if possible high resistance to it's contacts internally is a potential loss of motive force?

Starter, gearbox earth point and battery terminals connections all off, tickled with wet and dry and reinstated. All seem ok. Crude test with multimeter whilst cranking didn't seem to show significant volt drop during cranking (realise that I could have probed the solenoid output terminal to see volt drop between battery +ve and that point - pretty sure I did solenoid input instead as that's the more accessible connection from memory.

Lots of fuel system messing about which I am unconvinced now was fixing anything. Tiny bit of diesel bug found in fuel pickup strainer but nothing else untoward anywhere else in system. Fuel filter new. Previous one cut open and no bad news inside.

Intake manifold valve (anti shudder valve) is open when needs to be.

Timing checked and is correct. Runs well, well, when runs!

Glow plug fault, not tested plugs but started ok even in sub zero temperature a couple of weeks back.

Sure is other stuff might have missed.

[CitroJim]

Gosh Matt! I think you've checked and excluded just about every possible cause... I'll continue cogitating

[MattBLancs]

Gosh Matt! I think you've checked and excluded just about every possible cause... I'll continue cogitating

Probably for the best it's been too wet for a bonfire as the list of things to try other than torch it is getting rather short!

[MattBLancs]

...

One last test might be to jump using a very large, well-charged battery in parallel with the car's own and seeing if that makes any difference...

Similar but not the same: previous to the Landy bump start: did use the Coupe with jump leads, engine running, to feed a bit more current in whilst cranking. One lead to C5 battery positive, negative jump lead connection to C5 upper engine mount.

No difference

[CitroJim]

Gosh Matt! I think you've checked and excluded just about every possible cause... I'll continue cogitating

Probably for the best it's been too wet for a bonfire as the list of things to try other than torch it is getting rather short!

Now than Matt, we'll have none of that sort of talk around here We will get there, between us all

It may take a while but it's getting personal now and no way will we let an X7 beat us... It once took me six months to find the cause of a random cutout issue on a 207 but I got there and we will with yours

[MattBLancs]

Don't worry, all very much in jest.

I'd take the thing to bits and sell all the spares over trial by fire. More my style. (Limit my "solve it with fire" to inlet manifold de-carbonation!)

[CitroJim]

I'd take the thing to bits and sell all the spares over trial by fire. More my style. (Limit my "solve it with fire" to inlet manifold de-carbonation!)

[myglaren]

I expect that you will have checked the bearings. When mine wouldn't start and it was the starter, the bearings were seized.

[MattBLancs]

I expect that you will have checked the bearings. When mine wouldn't start and it was the starter, the bearings were seized.

Hi myglaren,

Yes bearings and epicyclic gearbox seemed fine and given some grease when had it apart.


New starters seems I've choice of kilowatt rating:

1.4, 1.7, 2.2 and 2.5kW choices on GSF.

Think the biggest one isn't it as has 5 mounting points. Mine definitely had 3 bolts and wasn't missing any.

2.2 kW option looks very different.

So that leaves 1.4 and 1.7kW choices.


Tending towards 1.7 kW Lucas from Halfords Trade at £38.68. but recons has 10 teeth which differs to ever other one I've seen! (11 or 13 teeth) will have to take the old one off for a measure and count up.

[CitroJim]

Matt, if only to positively exclude it I'd go for a replacement starter...

[MattBLancs]

Matt, if only to positively exclude it I'd go for a replacement starter...

Yes, agree. Some don't seem to have an exchange surcharge, so might gain a spare if nothing else.

Am out at present, it started fine. Fingers crossed I'm not providing car park entertainment when we come to head back!

[moizeau]

For the sake of 15-20 quid I'd change the starter solenoid. Not sure whats on yours but on my 2.0 136 Hdi is one of these.

I changed mine because it started popping the fuse when warm due to gunge. Damn sight cheaper than a starter.

[moizeau]

Looking at that now, I may have posted my S111 Landy one...........

[MattBLancs]

Looking at that now, I may have posted my S111 Landy one...........

Are you sure it's the Landy item? I thought usual maintenance approach on those was "percussive maintenance" and there's very little hammer rash visible there!




Started fine twice today, so faffing about at Barton Grange garden centre car park fortunately avoided. Wasn't even raining so car decided not worth playing up.

Quick use of camera phone in macro video + torch mode since got home had revealed the following numbers from the current starter:

96 562 627 80-03
M000T20871ZE
B8 12
12v Mitsubishi Czech


From this, so far I have learnt that many second hand car parts breakers are also able to read these labels and not much else yet! Was hoping to confirm power rating or anything else of note.

If someone has a good source / link for a mitsubishi catalogue / lookup table, then yes please!

(Side note: Wondering if "B8 12" is a batch number, and made 2012? Hence not original fitment)