C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[MattBLancs]

Some progress on this:

Arranged with a friend to get a tow with his Defender, off to E Howarth in Preston. As per viewtopic.php?t=42544&start=15

In for a penny, in for a pound, when we got on the nearby bypass, had a go at bump starting whilst towed....



Brrrruuummmmm!


Running fine! A touch lumpy idle for a few seconds then cleared and ran fine. So uncoupled the towing bar and drove rather than dragged to Preston.

Turned off and restarted fine when got to Preston.

Have left it there ready for a check next week and hopefully an MOT perhaps being all it needs!! Who knows! It's fair to say that is good news and pretty baffling in equal measure!

[Hell Razor5543]

Ah. I wonder if it was because the hydraulic tappets were 'dry', so the valves were not opening fully? Once she was towed the oil got into the tappets, and so the valves started working properly. I am sorry I did not think of this earlier, but I now recall posts on the Forum where this was mentioned as a requirement.

[CitroJim]

Good news Matt and all the best for the MoT

[moizeau]

Yep, was about to say that James, I forgot about that also. Good luck with the MOT

[MattBLancs]

Thanks all!

Am surprised if the tappets have drained down to such an extent, but equally it has me baffled really!

Tell you something, if you're in a C5 towed along with suspension in high (IE locked out no travel) it's a distinctly odd experience!

Despite being on charge all night it refused to step out of Economy Mode Active and so wouldn't let me lower it before we set off.

Soon as the engine started it had a slight fit about How dare I do 25 mph in high!?! And immediately lowered.

Normal C5 floatyness resumed of course! Which compared just to the last few months of 206 with its 205/45R16 and stiff springs was quite a change, but even more so against C5 without suspension!

[Doo]

I have been reading with interest and was going to suggest that you really don't hold back with the aerostart (or equivalent).

Having rebuilt our C4 with the 16v DV6 engine, I too had some fun trying to get it started. I ended up spraying brake cleaner as it's all I had and got a similar result as you. I kept on trying (having read an account from an Aussie chap and some Start Ya B@st@rd) where he did a Robert the Bruce and tried again

So my middle name being distantly related to the great Scot, I too tried again and again... It wasn't helped by having a dodgy injector, but after a few sprays she eventually fired and settled to a lumpy idle, cured by replacing the last injector.

I had replaced the timing chain, belt, water pump, clutch kit (LSUK), oil cooler, head gasket, all other gaskets & seals, injectors, glow plugs and the partridge in the pear tree

I took the car a few short runs, then a long run at varying speeds, then around the city and after around 100 miles, I dropped the new old oil (I didn't want to waste expensive oil knowing I was going to drop it so soon anyway, just to make sure there were no nasty surprises, so I used a can of unopened in 16yrs Castrol GTX) changed the oil & filter for the good stuff and allowed her indoors to go outdoors in the car for the 1st time in 6 months. Few weeks of back & forth to work, followed by a trip to Edinburgh airport, returned from abroad a week later, engine fired up 1st go & drove home 167 miles without a hitch. Fast forward aprox 3 months and the car is still going well.

In all, it's all good. Pesky DV6 hydraulic tappets

[bobins]

[Dormouse]

Does anybody know at what temperature "Summer Diesel" becomes a problem for starting?

[Hell Razor5543]

As I understand it the car monitors the battery charging, and calculates how long it can allow the battery to be used (with the engine off) before it 'disconnects' it (economy mode) to leave enough of a charge to start the engine again. It does not have the ability to check the battery without the engine running, so cannot make allowances for the battery being put on a charger. That is why it would not come out of economy mode until the engine remained running.

[MattBLancs]

Does anybody know at what temperature "Summer Diesel" becomes a problem for starting?

Winter diesel has a lower viscosity and a greater resistance to gelling in low temperatures (-12oC CFPP min), making it better suited to use in the cold winter months.

In contrast, summer diesel’s higher viscosity makes it less resistant to gelling in cold temperatures (-4oC CFPP min), and sees far higher use in the warm summer months

https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/oil-g ... er-winter/

Not my issue sadly as been battling this since it was much warmer!

[MattBLancs]

As I understand it the car monitors the battery charging, and calculates how long it can allow the battery to be used (with the engine off) before it 'disconnects' it (economy mode) to leave enough of a charge to start the engine again. It does not have the ability to check the battery without the engine running, so cannot make allowances for the battery being put on a charger. That is why it would not come out of economy mode until the engine remained running.

Ah, good to know, thank you

[MattBLancs]

Does anybody know at what temperature "Summer Diesel" becomes a problem for starting?

Winter diesel has a lower viscosity and a greater resistance to gelling in low temperatures (-12oC CFPP min), making it better suited to use in the cold winter months.

In contrast, summer diesel’s higher viscosity makes it less resistant to gelling in cold temperatures (-4oC CFPP min), and sees far higher use in the warm summer months

https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/oil-g ... er-winter/

Not my issue sadly as been battling this since it was much warmer!

And because it was niggling at me:

"Cold Filter Plugging Point" = CFPP

Which is one of those great terms that explains itself (so long as you know what the acronym stands for) !

[MattBLancs]

I have been reading with interest and was going to suggest that you really don't hold back with the aerostart (or equivalent).

Having rebuilt our C4 with the 16v DV6 engine, I too had some fun trying to get it started. I ended up spraying brake cleaner as it's all I had and got a similar result as you. I kept on trying (having read an account from an Aussie chap and some Start Ya B@st@rd) where he did a Robert the Bruce and tried again

So my middle name being distantly related to the great Scot, I too tried again and again... It wasn't helped by having a dodgy injector, but after a few sprays she eventually fired and settled to a lumpy idle, cured by replacing the last injector.

I had replaced the timing chain, belt, water pump, clutch kit (LSUK), oil cooler, head gasket, all other gaskets & seals, injectors, glow plugs and the partridge in the pear tree

I took the car a few short runs, then a long run at varying speeds, then around the city and after around 100 miles, I dropped the new old oil (I didn't want to waste expensive oil knowing I was going to drop it so soon anyway, just to make sure there were no nasty surprises, so I used a can of unopened in 16yrs Castrol GTX) changed the oil & filter for the good stuff and allowed her indoors to go outdoors in the car for the 1st time in 6 months. Few weeks of back & forth to work, followed by a trip to Edinburgh airport, returned from abroad a week later, engine fired up 1st go & drove home 167 miles without a hitch. Fast forward aprox 3 months and the car is still going well.

In all, it's all good. Pesky DV6 hydraulic tappets

Thanks for following the saga!

I too did a (partial) rebuild on a 16v DV6. I cleaned out the filthy oil from each tappet by compressing each one whilst held under the surface of some fresh oil. Not sure quite how thorough it cleaned them, but a slick of black emerged from each into the new, clear oil.

Left them submerged whilst I faffed about with cleaning up the head, re lapping the valves, new stem seals, etc.

Squirt of oil down each tappet bore before slipped each back into place.


Much to my surprise, no significant battle to restart it at all! But from your experiences seems I was lucky there!




P.s. yes, think I may have been too shy with the Start Ya Bastard! I don't really like how violent it is and have too much worry about going overboard with the spray and then the diesel engine over revving.

The tow start is much more my cup of tea!

Watched a video of someone resurrecting a Citroen C15D with the XUD7. There's a tow start in there of the thing nearly running, nearly running, nearly, brummmmmmm = I could watch that all day!


Not sure if that links to the moment in question, but 17:44 if not!

[Doo]

I have been reading with interest and was going to suggest that you really don't hold back with the aerostart (or equivalent).

Having rebuilt our C4 with the 16v DV6 engine, I too had some fun trying to get it started. I ended up spraying brake cleaner as it's all I had and got a similar result as you. I kept on trying (having read an account from an Aussie chap and some Start Ya B@st@rd) where he did a Robert the Bruce and tried again

So my middle name being distantly related to the great Scot, I too tried again and again... It wasn't helped by having a dodgy injector, but after a few sprays she eventually fired and settled to a lumpy idle, cured by replacing the last injector.

I had replaced the timing chain, belt, water pump, clutch kit (LSUK), oil cooler, head gasket, all other gaskets & seals, injectors, glow plugs and the partridge in the pear tree

I took the car a few short runs, then a long run at varying speeds, then around the city and after around 100 miles, I dropped the new old oil (I didn't want to waste expensive oil knowing I was going to drop it so soon anyway, just to make sure there were no nasty surprises, so I used a can of unopened in 16yrs Castrol GTX) changed the oil & filter for the good stuff and allowed her indoors to go outdoors in the car for the 1st time in 6 months. Few weeks of back & forth to work, followed by a trip to Edinburgh airport, returned from abroad a week later, engine fired up 1st go & drove home 167 miles without a hitch. Fast forward aprox 3 months and the car is still going well.

In all, it's all good. Pesky DV6 hydraulic tappets

Thanks for following the saga!

I too did a (partial) rebuild on a 16v DV6. I cleaned out the filthy oil from each tappet by compressing each one whilst held under the surface of some fresh oil. Not sure quite how thorough it cleaned them, but a slick of black emerged from each into the new, clear oil.

Left them submerged whilst I faffed about with cleaning up the head, re lapping the valves, new stem seals, etc.

Squirt of oil down each tappet bore before slipped each back into place.


Much to my surprise, no significant battle to restart it at all! But from your experiences seems I was lucky there!




P.s. yes, think I may have been too shy with the Start Ya Bastard! I don't really like how violent it is and have too much worry about going overboard with the spray and then the diesel engine over revving.

The tow start is much more my cup of tea!

Watched a video of someone resurrecting a Citroen C15D with the XUD7. There's a tow start in there of the thing nearly running, nearly running, nearly, brummmmmmm = I could watch that all day!


Not sure if that links to the moment in question, but 17:44 if not!

Ha ha, she's a rotter One good sneeze away from blowing the bloody doors off

[CitroJim]

That's an amazing video! Enjoyed that!