C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[moizeau]

When I pegged mine I started with the cam then jiggled the engine for the flywheel.

[MattBLancs]

Freshly made crank locating 8mm pin about to meet the hole

Shot of the newly made timing pin from bit of drop link. Viewed from the top.

Ah, 180 degrees out, crank pin out, full turn of the crank and repining required

Hole seen is the one in the cylinder head. Assumption was correct: timing cover hole does let you see this. Grommet still escaping me. As per comment was 180° out.

So quick rotation and repeat:

Well, that's not right is it!

So it seems timing is indeed out.

And here comes the rain again.

Hole in cover is blooming awkward to get at even with borescope. In the end I took off the "torque reaction mount" on top of the engine mount and could at least get the little camera looking straight into the hole. (Comes with a mirror attachment but is too dark inside the cover to be any use)


So will be repeating at least some of the belt replacement steps.

At next break in the weather I will see if my flywheel locking tool meets the ring gear teeth in correct place with the pin still in the flywheel or if that's going to need a modification as Pete described earlier.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Quick, the rain has stopped!

Flywheel locking tool in starter motor bottom hole with M10 bolt and washers to ensure sat flat

M10 bolt a snug fit through the tool and teeth align without need for any tweaks.

Viewed from the top

Another plus point for starter removal.

Another sign it's not right? Woodruff key nowhere near centre of slot

Think that is it for me today, the smell of pizza is drawing me back inside!

Matt

[KennyW]

Matt,
What engine is it ?

If you have already said sorry I missed it

Kenny

[MattBLancs]

Matt,
What engine is it ?

If you have already said sorry I missed it

Kenny

Not a problem, onto the sixth page of me waffling on!

2.2 HDi (2009 C5 X7)

Matt

[KennyW]

Okay, just been doing my belt, 2.0 Hdi 163.
Flywheel locking hole is in slightly different place but same principal.
Crankshaft sprocket has some play.
Camshaft sprocket has wiggle room but flywheel does not.
I got my camshaft locked first but found I couldn’t get flywheel locked so removed cam pin wiggled flywheel every so slightly and slipped into the hole refitted cam locking pin. Thereafter fitted flywheel locking tool.
Just persevere and everything will fall into place.

I also used some typing correcting fluid so I get the timing holes to line up.

I hope this helps
Kenny

[moizeau]

Matt, the fact the woodruff key isn't central maybe due to tensioner setting

[MattBLancs]

Camshaft sprocket has wiggle room but flywheel does not..

...

I hope this helps
Kenny

Helpful: yes thank you. Wasn't sure what you meant about wiggle room - ah think I get it: timing pin slot in camshaft sprocket isn't that close fitting? = therefore wiggle room! Sorry me being thick.

It's a long and convoluted story but I have changed the belt earlier in this saga. I couldn't find the crank timing hole so assumed, incorrectly, that the ring gear teeth grabbing tool did the locking. I "locked" it with an M8 bolt at the cover plate location (below starter) - so there's a couple of mm play there (as tool is snug on an M10) which (hypothesis follows!) may explain why loosening the ridiculously tight and loctited crank pulley bolt was able to shift the timing when I came to undo it - despite tightened the M8 bolt beforehand.

Matt, the fact the woodruff key isn't central maybe due to tensioner setting

Thank you, good point. Though counting against me: I didn't use the special bent piece of wire centraliser or small drill bits, both described by others above (though did visually try to keep it central)

I'm going to reverse back as far as a slack belt ready for tensioning, redo from then onwards (with ALL timing pins in place!) and see if that gives me a running engine once more. And or watch the queen's funeral / dodge the rain / all the above/ delete as appropriate

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Ok, changed plan a little:

Crankshaft pulley bolt loosened, crank 8mm pin reinserted, camshaft turned fractionally and then camshaft 8mm pin slotted in.

Woodruff key nearer central, thusly:

Cleaned the bolt free of loctite and blew out the crankshaft hole. Re loctite and put bolt back next.

Torque then angle tightened, see if I have written down figures in my "book of stuff"

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Torque then angle tightened, see if I have written down figures in my "book of stuff"

70Nm then 62±3° is figure I have to hand. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks,

Matt

[KennyW]

That’s what it is for my 2.0 HDi

Kenny

[moizeau]

Not a recommendation but I just did mine to 'FT Nm' not having a torque wrench available. I knew how much it needed to undo and used the same bar to retighten.

[MattBLancs]

Not a recommendation but I just did mine to 'FT Nm' not having a torque wrench available. I knew how much it needed to undo and used the same bar to retighten.

I have a bit of a confidence issue with this (on the basis of the slippy slidey pulley if too loose, but also on the palaver with undoing it, risk of shearing the bolt etc long winded instructions I've read for this too!)

70Nm + 65° felt pretty "FT" even with my 600mm breaker bar, so hopefully near enough the right ball park.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Well, there's nowt like ending the bank holiday weekend on a high...

... And this is nothing like end on a high.

All back together (minus undertray, wheel arch liner and a couple of odds and sods)

Turned over and not a sausage, not even my often described "cough" at present.

Will try again next weekend, back to shoving easy start up it's nose and see if I can get back to any signs of life from the damn thing.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Ok, another go with diagnostics as need a helper if trying easy start again (cannot reach ignition key and spray into inlet at same time)

Two faults logged at present (other than some to do with rear parking sensor ECU)
One is glow plugs, shouldn't prevent starting in this weather. P1351
Other is F5FF unexpected reinitialisation fault coming from the BSI.

On fuel circuit information, turned the key whilst recording diagbox screen. Slow mow playback works a treat.

When cranking:
Injection pressure quickly climbs. Saw 290 bar logged, 282 reference pressure is minimum to let it run I think?

Engine RPM seems lower, was 129rpm. Battery on charge yesterday - has not lost a lot but topped back up.

Quick screen grab of video of diagbox whilst cranking