Picasso II (B78) Parking Sensors

[WillyR]

Afternoon all,

Our 2015 Grand Picasso II (B78) EAT6 suffered a VERY SLIGHT bump at the rear yesterday when I was reversing out of the way of Mr Impatient in a car park.
1. Both my wife and I do not remember hearing the audible warning which worked perfectly up until an hour previously
2. The point of contact was where the two left hand corner sensors are located and left no marks on the paintwork or sensors although a slight flexing of the bumper corner can be seen to have taken place.
As soon as I left the car park, the Sensor Failure Alarm displayed, and every time I stop the car it warns me that Parking Assistance is not available.

When I got home, I tried the first repair - disconnect the car battery for 2 hours. This appeared to cure the problem until I started and moved the car (after waiting 2 hours before resetting the Time/Date and other functions) when the same warnings reappeared. The Parking Sensor function is now permanently ORANGE, and cannot be change by tapping the Icon.

Potential other faults already existing before the incident - mentioned here in case they are common functions with the Parking sensors.
1. Stop/Start ceased over 2 years ago around when the battery reached 5 years old. The 7 year old original battery was replaced with an AGM096 from Halfords two weeks ago, and for the first 3 or 4 days the Stop/Start worked as if the car was brand new, then stopped. It just shows Flashing ECO every time I stop now. I'm not highly impressed with the new battery as it starts the car no better than my 7 year old original battery did (I checked the charging voltage with engine running and it is 14.2-14.4V. On switch off ignition. the shutdown current drain starts at 3A and slowly drops to a constant 40mA after about 2 minutes, which seems a little high, although there are an awful lot of sleeping systems on board).
2. The LDW stopped working about 6 months ago, although the cruise control is still active, and the seat belt shake function still works on reaching 10mph after engine start, and emergency belt tighten works perfectly in emergency stop or approaching accident triggers it. The windscreen was replaced 5 years ago, and the LDW worked perfectly until recently.
3. The Blindspot warning has a temperamental hissy fit every now and then but testing it is not easy especially with no passenger onboard to keep note.

I will get down under the car in the next couple of days to see if the sensor wiring has been disturbed or damaged, but in the meanwhile, I would be grateful for suggestions. I will also be heading to a diagnostic centre to have the fault codes read, because the 2 OBDII readers I have show nothing.

[GiveMeABreak]

Parking Assistance: Ok, so if any one of the parking sensors is damaged it will deactivate the parking assistance function for safety. These ultrasonic sensors are very sensitive and don't take well to any knocks. A proper diagnostic can indicate which one is faulty.

Blind Spot Monitoring:The Blind Spot monitoring system uses the outermost sensors in the front and rear bumpers (the side facing ones), so if you have knocked the same one in the accident that could be why the Blind Spot system is on the fritz.

Battery / Stop Start: When you have a new battery fitted the Battery Charge Status Unit system needs hours (overnight in some cases) to calibrate. This can affect the A/C system too.

The Stop Start won't start working again until all the pre-requisite conditions are met. After a decent run, you might find it settles down and starts working again. Try and avoid charging accessories in the car or listening to the audio system without the engine running as this can pull the battery below operational parameters for systems like the Stop Start.

[WillyR]

Thanks Marc.
Regarding the Stop/Start, when I took the car out for a drive about an hour after replacing the battery, the stop/Start worked perfectly, which I found a little strange following all the comments I have read previously, and yours today, that the S/S will take a while to settle down. Anyway, after nearly two weeks with 3 or 4 30-mile trips up and down the Motorways included in my town driving, I'm a little surprised it hasn't kicked in after its initial 4-day exhibition of perfect S/S operation. I'll have to keep an eye on it. I'm off Up The Smoke this weekend, so I'll see what 150 miles does for the S/S.

Is there any FCF history of troubleshooting the LDW failure, given that the seatbelt shake functions work perfectly on Drive-Off, Emergency Brake and Collision Warniing?

****
Before I part with too many "readies" at a Dealer, do you have any members with suitable Picasso II diagnostic readers in my Area (I'm happy to travel 50 miles) which is Ashford, Kent, who might be willing to read the memory faults (the wife already knows all of mine, but she would be happy to receive confirmation. Ha Ha) on the car?
****

Will

[myglaren]

Before I part with too many "readies" at a Dealer, do you have any members with suitable Picasso II diagnostic readers in my Area (I'm happy to travel 50 miles) which is Ashford, Kent, who might be willing to read the memory faults (the wife already knows all of mine, but she would be happy to receive confirmation. Ha Ha) on the car?
****

There is a list of members with Lexia/Diagbox equipment here with a map at the end of it.

GF1969 is in Ashford but hasn't logged in since last August. Try sending him a PM and see if he can accommodate you.

[WillyR]

Before I part with too many "readies" at a Dealer, do you have any members with suitable Picasso II diagnostic readers in my Area (I'm happy to travel 50 miles) which is Ashford, Kent, who might be willing to read the memory faults (the wife already knows all of mine, but she would be happy to receive confirmation. Ha Ha) on the car?
****

There is a list of members with Lexia/Diagbox equipment here with a map at the end of it.

GF1969 is in Ashford but hasn't logged in since last August. Try sending him a PM and see if he can accommodate you.

Thanks very much for the information . I'll try the local Ashford member first, then go further if I get no response.

[WillyR]

UPDATE from my post Picasso II (B78) Parking Sensors - Post by WillyR » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:53 pm

1. Stop Start is perfect. It just needed a good run, and as I'm retired, I don't used the car every day any longer.

1a. LDW is still not working, and a full diagnostic scan shows nothing remotely looking like the LDW function. This is obviously a dealer job, unless anyone has any ideas.

2. Rear parking sensor failure has been diagnosed as B1224 - OUTER LEFT REAR (sideways pointing sensor - the hardest one to get to). It was the only device that stayed permanent after I cleared all the fault codes and took the car for a drive - B1224. The only other faults allied to the Parking system (sensors and autopark) were B122C and B122D - Left and Right Mirror Parking Assistance Cameras, showing INTERMITTENT.

I will remove and test the two most left hand parking sensors, if I can get them out. Does anyone have a pictorial showing how they are clipped into position, please? The only Youtube information I could find suggests removal of the rear bumper. That is NOT going to happen.

FURTHER INFORMATION...
I note that Bxxxx codes are not considered proper Citroen codes by @GiveMeABreak in a previous post to someone else on FCF. The Diag Box I used was a TOPDON ArtDiag800 BT, using the Citroen App v41.70, so there is a possibility that this faulty sensor has been incorrectly diagnosed. However, the box recognised my car, including VIN and vehicle identification, so I'm happy to believe it for the moment.

[WillyR]

Evening all,
After almost a year of no work on my Parking sensors, I found a replacement sensor to cure the second sensor from the left - LEFT OUTER SENSOR (fault code B1224), even though I had previously swapped this with the same sensor on the right side, with no positive result (makes the cabling suspicious), and I fitted it today - NO CHANGE.
Further investigation suggests that my TopDon Diag Box is confused over which sensor is which. Or I can't read Chinese "Engrish" (please forgive the weak joke.

I have attached the PSA paperwork, showing the part numbers and positions of the 6 sensors on each end of the car - please check for the indicated positions of 5 & 6.
Position 5 (16 083 217 80) is the Outer Rear Left Parking Assistance Sensor - Fault code B1224 this is the indicated fault code
Position 6 (16 084 722 80) is the Rear Left Lateral Parking Assistance Sensor - Fault code B1244

My Diag Box says the fault is DEFINITELY B1224 - the second sensor inwards from the extremity, but when I inteerogate it, the diag box says this sensor is responsible for (parallel)Parking and steering assistance. I don't believe this is correct. Can anyone verify or confirm the correct sensor positions regarding the failure identity, as I have swapped both from side to side (they are not interchangeable from 5 to 6, and the connectors have different keyways.?

My most grateful thanks in advance to anyone who can help

[GiveMeABreak]

First, you are missing the last 2 digits of the fault code - which will tell me what the specific issue is with it. Your fault code reader most likely can't provide this, so I can't help you with the exact problem being reported. Ideally Diagbox should be used.

Second, ignore the parts diagram you posted up - those are irrelevant as far as positioning goes. The 5 & 6 on the parts list are not positions, they are items on the diagram and therefore the part numbers are not relevant. The sensors for the inner, outer and blindspot monitoring are all different.

So for Fault B1224, it is referring on my diagram to sensor (13).
Fault B1244 is referring to sensor (14) - which is the rear left Blindspot proximity sensor.

Ok there are several things to understand about the various systems:

Normal Parking assistance
The 4 Front inner most and the rear 4 innermost sensors are used for obstacle detection for normal non-assisted parking.

Blind Spot Monitoring
The Blind Spot monitoring system uses the outermost front 2 and rear outer most 2 sensors to detect vehicles passing and illuminate the diode in the relevant wing mirror.

Semi Automatic Parking
For this system, all 12 (6 rear & 6 front) sensors are used to park the vehicle, along with the reversing camera / side cameras depending on equipment.

Front

(1) Electric power steering.
(2) Steering wheel angle sensor.
(3) Front parking space measurement proximity transmitter sensor (left side).
(4) Exterior left front proximity transmitter sensor.
(5) Interior left front proximity transmitter sensor.
(6) Interior right front proximity transmitter sensor.
(7) Exterior right front proximity transmitter sensor.
(8) Front parking space measurement proximity transmitter sensor (right side).

Rear

(9) Right-hand blind spot monitoring proximity transmitter sensor.
(10) Exterior right rear proximity transmitter sensor.
(11) Interior right rear proximity transmitter sensor.
(12) Interior left rear proximity transmitter sensor.
(13) Exterior left rear proximity transmitter sensor.
(14) Left-hand blind spot monitoring proximity transmitter sensor.
(15) Semi-automatic parking assistance ECU.

As for the positions and names, let's refer to my 2 diagrams:

The blind spot sensors above (3 & 8 and 9 & 14) are referred to as front or rear, left or right hand 'blind spot monitoring proximity sensors', but also can be referred to as the front or rear lateral sensors.

The inner 2 front (5 & 6) and inner 2 rear (11 & 12) parking sensors are referred to as 'interior'.
The outer 2 front (4 & 7) and outer 2 rear (10 & 13) parking sensors are referred to as 'exterior'.

[WillyR]

Thanks very much for your response, Marc.
Your positional numbering, although different to what the PSA drawings showed indicate the same sensors I was querying, so at least I now know I'm chasing the right fault location.
I don't know how to get to another 2 digits of identification on my TopDon box, but it does show a deeper analysis on live request, so I'll carry on from here. Having previously swapped sensors left to right and back again with no fault identity change, I guess, I'm going to have to remove the bumber and check the cabling.
If I manage to find a deeper fault analysis, I will post the details.

Thanks again
WillyR

[WillyR]

....Oops. Forgot to mention.
1. My Blind spot indication works perfectly on both sides, overtaking and being overtaken, which, if Sensor 13 is not doing its job should surely not allow correct detection on the left side when being overtaken (from the left)..??
2. When I reset everything and delete all intermittent / temporary faults, and then drive the car forwards, the sensors work on approach to an obstruction. However, as soon as I select reverse, the system shuts down showing failure.

Please give me the details of the Diag Box you referred to in your reply yesterday.

Cheers
WillyR

[GiveMeABreak]

Here's the supplier many of us use:

https://www.easydiagnostics.co.uk/produ ... t-vehicles

The last 2 digits of the fault code will indicate what the issue is with the sensor - i.e open circuit, short circuit etc. and each of these can have 3-4+ variations of fault Willy.

Also please bear in mind that the sensors are different depending on the position (inner, outer & lateral or Blind Spot) so changing any of these with a different type may throw another error that you don't need when troubleshooting.

[WillyR]

Thanks for the diag box details. I will look into it.
Regarding the 3 different sensors on each side (not end), I have not had any reason to touch the inner of each triple on the rear, so my only experience is with the lateral and outer sensors, and it is not possible to interchange them as the plugs have different keyways.
I am going to have another crack this afternoon, but I am thinking more along the lines of a wiring fault with No (13) Exterior left rear proximity transmitter sensor.

Your thoughts on why the blind spot detection is not faulty on the rear left (being overtaken on the left)???

Cheers for now
WillyR

[GiveMeABreak]

Just so we are on the same page:

As for the Blindspot issue - I can't say if there is a fault - but the front and rear work together on each side. If you had a fault with the Blindspot sensors (any of them), you would have a warning lamp on the dashboard light up and possibly a message.

So without the full fault code I can't advise as to what the problem is.

[WillyR]

That is even clearer than before, and I promise faithfully to NEVER mix them up again.
As you previously said, and the PSA diagram I posted indicated, there are two each of three different sensors (PSA part numbers shown for 13/14 & 9/10), front and rear. I have decided to go down to my local scrappy and see if he has a Picasso II in his lot, and purloin the wiring loom for the rear sensors. Right now, I am very sure all 4 of the exterior rear sensors are OK, and the wiring to No 13 is not good somehow, because every swap has retained the fault at No 13 - swapped 13 & 10, and also fitted a new No 13 - irrespective of the sensor fitted in that position.

It will probably be a few days, at least, before I post again as chasing the wiring, as I'm sure you know only too well, is not the most fun in the circus.

Cheers for Now
WillyR

[GiveMeABreak]

Check back here in a minute and I'll have an electrical diagram of the system for you...