Engine turning over but refusing to start
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- KennyW
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Re: Engine turning over but refusingto start
Quick update, check fuel filter Not clogged, heard the fuel gurgling as it ran back to the tank. NO blockage from filter to tank. Also thought I would check injectors no fuel and lovely and dry.
But car went into Economy mode so unable to use Diagbox.So unable to do further checks underneath re when under shield was dislodged last week.
Can I put a trickle charger on the battery and boost the battery then use Diagbox ?
Also can the wiring diagram for fuel pump be added to the thread. Is there a fuse and any relays in the system ?
Hoping it's something simple to fix as HDi fuel pump new is extortionate. Even the HP fuel regulator is £100.
Thanks in advance
Kenny
But car went into Economy mode so unable to use Diagbox.So unable to do further checks underneath re when under shield was dislodged last week.
Can I put a trickle charger on the battery and boost the battery then use Diagbox ?
Also can the wiring diagram for fuel pump be added to the thread. Is there a fuse and any relays in the system ?
Hoping it's something simple to fix as HDi fuel pump new is extortionate. Even the HP fuel regulator is £100.
Thanks in advance
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Engine turning over but refusingto start
There's no separate wiring diagram for the fuel pump - it's all on the main injection diagram that I've put up before Kenny:
You can temporarily switch off economy mode using Diagbox for up to an hour IIRC. I think it's in the BSI menu - which if you have issues with you can just keep the engine running whilst you do that.
Just pop up the fault codes when you can.
1208 is the Diesel Injection Pump
1321 is the Diesel High Pressure Sensor
Location
You can temporarily switch off economy mode using Diagbox for up to an hour IIRC. I think it's in the BSI menu - which if you have issues with you can just keep the engine running whilst you do that.
Just pop up the fault codes when you can.
1208 is the Diesel Injection Pump
1321 is the Diesel High Pressure Sensor
Location
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Marc
Marc
- KennyW
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Re: Engine turning over but refusingto start
Marc,
The engine turns over but does not start at all.
So just to clarify I can plug in Diagbox and access the BSI whilst it's in eco mode.
Also I have noticed the diesel HP regulator 1322 is not shown unless I've missed it. It's attached to the fuel pump.
Kenny
The engine turns over but does not start at all.
So just to clarify I can plug in Diagbox and access the BSI whilst it's in eco mode.
Also I have noticed the diesel HP regulator 1322 is not shown unless I've missed it. It's attached to the fuel pump.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Engine turning over but refusingto start
Sorry Kenny - I was being a bit of a numpty there - of course without the engine starting that's not going to happen. I think you need to get the battery out and give it a day or so to charge. Before I put my X7 shunt fuse into Park Mode not long into the start of the pandemic where it wasn't getting used, it took nearly 2 days to charge on a trickle at low amps using a smart charger.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
Re: Engine turning over but refusingto start
Economy mode should not stop diagbox communicating.
- KennyW
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Okay thanks for the replies.
Can't get much done over the next few days, other duties.
Can I confirm the basic operation of the injection system at start up is as follows:
Ignition is turn on and starter motor turns over engine causing fuel to be drawn from tank through filter by HP pressure pump (low pressure part of system) pump increases the pressure on the diesel through the common rail into injectors and sprayed into head, regulator controls the pressure and the sensor controls the speed and amount injected. Diesel is ignited by compression.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
Further can I confirm HP pump is a Bosch make.
Kenny
Can't get much done over the next few days, other duties.
Can I confirm the basic operation of the injection system at start up is as follows:
Ignition is turn on and starter motor turns over engine causing fuel to be drawn from tank through filter by HP pressure pump (low pressure part of system) pump increases the pressure on the diesel through the common rail into injectors and sprayed into head, regulator controls the pressure and the sensor controls the speed and amount injected. Diesel is ignited by compression.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
Further can I confirm HP pump is a Bosch make.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Another update,
Battery charged up, Diagbox attached and obtained the following codes from Injection ignition ecu
P2291 staring monitor - rise in pressure in the injection rail is too slow on starting
P1164 Pressure sensor on the injection rail - incoherence in the starting value
P0017 Starting monitor - Synchronisation time too long
P0336 engine speed sensor - Signal absent on starting
Thoughts please
Kenny
Battery charged up, Diagbox attached and obtained the following codes from Injection ignition ecu
P2291 staring monitor - rise in pressure in the injection rail is too slow on starting
P1164 Pressure sensor on the injection rail - incoherence in the starting value
P0017 Starting monitor - Synchronisation time too long
P0336 engine speed sensor - Signal absent on starting
Thoughts please
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Sounds like the crank sensor has gone TU. I think there was a post on this recently... If you go into live data can you see the engine speed when cranking?
Richard W
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Also, what is the rail pressure showing when cranking? I'm sure I also recall a thread somewhere where the drive for the HP fuel pump had snapped off the end of the cam shaft.....
Richard W
- KennyW
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Thanks for the reply Richard,
I only have the live data when the faults were recorded:
P2291 Rail pressure setting 390 bar
measured fuel pressure 77 bar
P1164 Rail pressure setting 300bar
measured pressure setting 225 bar
I've changed the crankshaft sensor twice in the last year but found second time around it was a broken wire.
Kenny
I only have the live data when the faults were recorded:
P2291 Rail pressure setting 390 bar
measured fuel pressure 77 bar
P1164 Rail pressure setting 300bar
measured pressure setting 225 bar
I've changed the crankshaft sensor twice in the last year but found second time around it was a broken wire.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
You should be able to take the crank position sensor out of the equation if it shows as sync'd with the cam when turning over
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Kenny - here are the fault descriptors for the faults as promised:
Fault Code: | P0336 |
Description of Fault: | Engine speed sensor: Signal absent when starting. Engine speed sensor absent detected for 2 s when starting |
Conditions for Fault to clear: | 10 successive starts |
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: | |
Symptoms: | Starting problem, Jerking/stalling |
Suspect Areas: | Engine speed sensor, Connectors, The electrical harness, Engine speed sensor target |
Fault Code: | P0017 |
Description of Fault: | Starting monitoring: Synchronisation time too long. Synchronisation time of more than 2 s between the camshaft sensor and the engine speed sensor. |
Conditions for Fault to clear: | 10 successive starts. |
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: | |
Symptoms: | Starting problem |
Suspect Areas: | Camshaft sensor, Camshaft pulley, Engine speed sensor target, Engine speed sensor, Timing Belt, Electrical harnesses, Connectors |
Fault Code: | P1164 |
Description of Fault: | Pressure sensor on the fuel injection rail Incoherence on the value when starting. Plausibility fault. Gradual drift in the rail pressure prior to starting of more than 55 bars at 20 °C (For 0,3 second). |
Conditions for Fault to clear: | Starting after a wait of more than 5 min following a stopping of the engine |
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: |
|
Symptoms: | Engine hesitating, cutting out, Engine acceleration at wrong time, Noise, Smoke from the exhaust, Lack of power, Starting problem. |
Suspect Areas: | Fuel high pressure common injection rail pressure sensor, Connector, Electrical harness, Engine ECU |
Fault Code: | P2291 |
Description of Fault: | Starting monitoring: Pressure increase in the injection rail too slow when starting. Difference between the pressure measured in the fuel high pressure common rail and the reference, of less than 100 bars, reached after a period greater than 6 seconds. |
Conditions for Fault to clear: | 10 successive starts |
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: | |
Symptoms: | Engine hesitating, cutting out, Starting problem, Lack of power, Fluid leak / Smells, Diesel fuel consumption a bit higher, Engine stop downgraded, Smoke from the exhaust. |
Suspect Areas: |
|
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
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- KennyW
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Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
Thanks Marc,
Still baffled but crankshaft and camshaft sensors are not in sync, this is mentioned in P0336. No smells or leaks so far I'm going to check underneath.
A fortnight ago during heavy raining struck the under shield dislodging several plastic push in clips but no obvious damage was seen. I believe this where the fuel supply and return pipe run. No obvious leaks seen but if a small slit or hole appeared possible problem. Further inspection to be done.
Any other thoughts suggestions gratefully accepted.
Kenny
Still baffled but crankshaft and camshaft sensors are not in sync, this is mentioned in P0336. No smells or leaks so far I'm going to check underneath.
A fortnight ago during heavy raining struck the under shield dislodging several plastic push in clips but no obvious damage was seen. I believe this where the fuel supply and return pipe run. No obvious leaks seen but if a small slit or hole appeared possible problem. Further inspection to be done.
Any other thoughts suggestions gratefully accepted.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- moizeau
- (Donor 2022)
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407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped) - x 315
Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
If cam and crank aren't sync'd it won't start
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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Re: Engine turning over but refusing to start
You need to get it back on Diagbox and get the live data when cranking. Are you getting a speed reading? Is it 180 rpm or so? Does the cam / crank switch to yes? Is it showing fuel pressure, and if so is it above 100 bar?
Richard W