Check Ad Blu System

[Tofwig]

Evening all...

My relay van has been nothing but a problem.since I bought it a year ago.

Several visits to the dealer under warranty, this latest visit Is going to hurt as just just out of warranty.

Latest issue is CHECK Ad blu system. I've taken it in, they have done a forced regeneration on the DPF and have come back and said it needs a new DPF. Aren't the Ad Blu and DPF separate systems?

I've said I don't understand how this can be, as the van has done 102,000 and most of this has been motorway driving.

A code a friend pulled off before I took it to the dealer was U095E.

Are the dealers taking the Michael out of me? When the DPF don't rid the fault, they Will say new censors, then new tank?

They are calling me tomorrow.

Help

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, the SCR system treats the NOx and the DPF treats the Particulate matter.

They are entirely different systems. Adblue comes from a separate tank and is injected into the Catalytic converter, then the particles are trapped later on by the DPF.

The Eolys additive system also has a separate tank and this is injected into the diesel in the fuel tank to reduce the temperature needed for assisted regeneration from about 550°C to 450°C.

The fact that the message is asking to check the Adblue system is the clue. Have you topped up the Adblue tank and if so, then that may need some attention.

The particle filter should be good for anything up to 120K or more, before it needs cleaning ir replacing, but this will depend on journey type and driving habits.

[Tofwig]

Hi Marc

Yeah the ad blu was topped up with a 10 litre tub before we had the latest engine management light come on.

It had been for a service then mot and was parked up for about 5 weeks, as soon as I started it after thus 5 week park up, the light came on.

Sure the dealers are just going through every possible step to empty my wallet.

Any advice before they call me back this morning, is there specific questions I need to ask them?

Thanks
Carl

[GiveMeABreak]

If the Adblue tank was empty or near empty prior to the 'park up' - do check your owner's handbook, as there are some conditions that you need to note if has been filled up after it was near empty:

Important: In the event of a top-up after running out of AdBlue, you must wait about five minutes before switching on the ignition, without opening the driver's door, unlocking the vehicle or inserting the key in the ignition switch.

Switch on the ignition, then wait for 10 seconds before starting the engine.

If you have had the Adblue warning light on and topped it up following the guidance depending on the circumstances, it does state that if the Adblue warning is still on after you have driven at least 30 miles, then there is a fault which needs investigation.

Other than that and regarding the DPF - obviously I don't know if they have detected a separate fault when you last had it in. If the dealer has already connected it up to Diagbox (which is the name of their diagnostic tool software) and there were other fault codes presenting, then there may well be another fault. If you have paid for a diagnostic, then ask them for the report or printout showing the fault codes, so you can see for yourself that they are reporting what has been found. If you have paid for a diagnostic, you are entitled to see the results or have a copy.

[Tofwig]

Hi Marc

The ad blu light was on when I topped it up, but after tipping up it was left for a day or 2, we did a few miles and every thing was ok, then it was stood

I have just had a call from the dealer, they have said that the regeneration didn't work last night, and they have submitted a claim with citroen which has been turned down.

I have asked for a copy of the fault codes and I await them. They have just come back and said that they cannot give me a copy of the diagnosis???

[GiveMeABreak]

It depends if you have paid for the diagnostic or not. If you haven’t paid for it, then they probably have no obligation to provide a report, except out of courtesy.

Is the vehicle out of warranty now?

Some specific fault codes will cause the engine ECU to prevent a forced regeneration to prevent damage if there are problems.

[Tofwig]

Hi Marc

Yeah had the pleasure of paying £99 for it, sounds a bit suspect why they will not give me the print out.
I asked for the fault codes and they given me P2402F97 - Filter detected warm
P11997B - Fuel level too low (fuel light had just come on when I took it in).

Chassis number VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]


Yes now out of warranty ran out 13th June

What I don't understand, they have not said anything about the check Ad blu system?

[GiveMeABreak]

The only code I have is the following, but I would argue that you are entitled to a report if you have paid for it!

Fault Code:	P1199 7B
Description of Fault:	Fuel level: Level too low. Fuel Level Fault. Fault confirmation time less than 1 second. The following conditions have to be met - Ignition on - Engine running - Minimum fuel level
Conditions for Fault to clear:	At least one of the following conditions must be fulfilled - After switching the ignition off and then back on - Driving for 5 minutes after adding 10 litres of fuel
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine Deactivation or switching off of the cruise control/speed limiter function Activation of the cruise control or speed limiter function impossible
Symptoms:	Engine hesitating, cutting out Lack of power Fluid leak/smells (diesel fuel, oil, etc.) Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine Deactivation or switching off of the cruise control/speed limiter function Activation of the cruise control or speed limiter function impossible
Suspect Areas:	Fuel filter Fuel system Fuel pump gauge module Fuel tank Running out of fuel

You may have mis-typed the other fault. If it is in fact: P242F 97 then this will be:

Fault Code:	P242F 97
Description of Fault:	Maximum additive threshold of additive in the particle filter : Malfunction. Detection of an excessive quantity of ash (particle combustion residue) in the particle emission filter
Conditions for Fault to clear:	After switching the ignition off and then back on
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	None
Symptoms:	None
Suspect Areas:	Particle filter DeNOx catalyser Additive pump

So if the particle filter is clogged up and can no longer regenerate then this may be having an impact on the De NOx part of the Catalytic Converter which is just before the particle filter. Particle filters ultimately clog up with particles of Cerine (from the additive fluid over time), ash and other debris that cannot be burned off, which is why they have a finite life, and need a deep clean or replacement.

If the DPF part is starting to clog badly and can not regenerate, then the pressure may be impacting on the Adblue injection and that may be why you were having an issue with the Adblue warning system.

[Tofwig]

Thanks very much Marc.

I've raised a case with Citroen for some good will. I've now collected the van, no warning lights are currently on, but I suspect its only a matter of time before it comes back on?

I questioned again why I cannot have a copy of the diagnostic report and they said that they can't because it's Citroëns.

Can't get my head round that one at all.

[GiveMeABreak]

In any dispute they would be legally obliged to make it available as you have paid for it and I suspect the dealer is not correct. Imagine paying for an engineers report and then the engineer not providing you with it....

See how you go with it as it is just out of warranty - you may be lucky and get a bit of goodwill.

[Tofwig]

Hi... Back again.

They had cleared the faults and more or less 5000 later its come back on again. They have now actually given me the print out, the milage is completely wrong, it's down as 243000, when it in fact only had 102000 when I took it in. They are claiming a gremlin, and that the machine picks up milage when plugged in?

Ive uploaded the report.

Thanks

[Tofwig]

And added the last sheet

[GiveMeABreak]

The system generally records mileage in Kilometers, so probably why it is incorrect, but even with the conversion that doesn't add up.

[GiveMeABreak]

What I would do is try and push for it to be fixed under warranty - seeing as you reported this at least back in July 2021 (if not before). You manufacturer warranty started 16/06/2018, so would only be a month out when you reported the issue. If you are lucky you may get them to sort it out.

[Tofwig]

Hi Marc.... Been on the phone to the dealer again. They have basically said I would need to bring it in again, so another lot of charges, then probably another regen. I've told them That i am overly happy with 1st, refusal to get the print out, and then looking at the print out they have not even had the engine running to do the tests, so no live data.

I have asked about the warranty for the potential ad blu tank, they said they may be able to do something but the mileage of the vehicle (if it was the ad blu tank) would be on the lower scale.

Rock and hard place I think.