407 estate tailgate opening issue

[glutton for french]

Hey folks

Just wondering if anyone's had this issue. My tailgate on my 2005 407 estate won't open.

When I press the handle, it depresses and something starts whirring inside the boot but no joy in actually releasing it. It used to be if you pressed the handle to open the glass (which also doesn't work ) it would open the whole thing but no joy any more. This has been a bit of an on/off problem and now it's just permanently on.
The boot does open with the emergency catch inside though, so I'm guessing it's a problem with the electrics
Ironically I also had a Citroen C5 with a boot problem too, and this was the first thing I checked when I bought the car!

This is a 14 year old car, the turbo has gone, tyres are running low and the EPS light is on so I'm hoping the collective wisdom of this group may be able to help or at least suggest who to enquire about fixing it as sinking more money into it seems a bit of a fallacy

[EDC5]

Hi and welcome

If you can hear whirring then maybe the motor is working and the problem is in the linkage between the motor and the lock itself?

[sparksie]

Hi and welcome

If you can hear whirring then maybe the motor is working and the problem is in the linkage between the motor and the lock itself?

Seconded
You'll have to take the panel off and look to see whats actually happening and where the sound is coming from.
I haven't experienced this with a 407, so I'd be winging it.
You MAY have an electrical problem, if some of the wiring has broken near the hinge, causing a voltage drop, but I think I'd be looking for a mechanical breakdown first

[glutton for french]

Hi and welcome

If you can hear whirring then maybe the motor is working and the problem is in the linkage between the motor and the lock itself?

Seconded
You'll have to take the panel off and look to see whats actually happening and where the sound is coming from.
I haven't experienced this with a 407, so I'd be winging it.
You MAY have an electrical problem, if some of the wiring has broken near the hinge, causing a voltage drop, but I think I'd be looking for a mechanical breakdown first

Thanks for the input chaps. Yup, I'm pretty sure it's a problem with the electrics and where the signal is going. The wiring near the handle looks ok although it's hard to see as the boot hasn't exactly been built for accessibility. I've tried unplugging and plugging the connectors in as that's helped in the past but no joy.

Might have to resign myself to taking it to a garage........

[sparksie]

I think you'll most likely find the "signal" going to the right place, because the motor makes a noise at the appropriate time.
The electrical malady I was hinting at is a voltage issue, caused by a broken wire forcing operating current to travel by an unsuitable path, perhaps the hinges, or lock plate, resulting in the stalled motor singing instead of exerting a strong enough pull to operate the mechanism.
Your description of a whirring noise is not really consistent with this, though, which makes me think it's more likely to be a mechanical breakdown.
Incidentally, does anyone know what actually drives this mechanism? Is it a rotary motor, or a linear solenoid? ie should it whirr, or clunk?

[glutton for french]

I think you'll most likely find the "signal" going to the right place, because the motor makes a noise at the appropriate time.
The electrical malady I was hinting at is a voltage issue, caused by a broken wire forcing operating current to travel by an unsuitable path, perhaps the hinges, or lock plate, resulting in the stalled motor singing instead of exerting a strong enough pull to operate the mechanism.
Your description of a whirring noise is not really consistent with this, though, which makes me think it's more likely to be a mechanical breakdown.
Incidentally, does anyone know what actually drives this mechanism? Is it a rotary motor, or a linear solenoid? ie should it whirr, or clunk?

Thanks for the advice
I've had the mechanism apart, think it's a rotary motor. There's a gear inside it which turns a long flat gear (pretty sure that's not the technical term) which in turn pulls the release for the lock. When it does open it's instantaneous, you don't hear the gear whir. The whirring actually seems to be coming from the part which houses the back windscreen wiper/back windscreen release

[sparksie]

That's a "rack and pinion". The pinion is the small round gear and the rack is the long flat one.
It's one, possibly the most common, way to convert rotary motion into linear motion.
One common problem with the design is, when it stops and starts at the same place the teeth can wear away from the stop/start points on the rack, with no apparent wear to the rest of it. This can be hard to spot without taking it apart, because the pinion hides the missing teeth.
If you can operate it with the cover off, you should be able to see the pinion spin, if this is the problem.
As I said, I'm not familiar enough with the 407 estate, so I don't know what's supposed to happen when you open the tailgate. It may, for example, close the glass before opening the door, or park the wiper. Or maybe it's like the Defender, which needs to open the window slightly, before you open the door.
If any of these are the case, then there may be nothing wrong with the door release. It may simply be failing the first task, so refusing the second.
Is anybody knowledgeable abut the specific model reading this thread?
A session on Peugeot Planet diagnostics might be useful.

[GiveMeABreak]

Pop your VIN up and I’ll see what I have.

[glutton for french]

That's a "rack and pinion". The pinion is the small round gear and the rack is the long flat one.
It's one, possibly the most common, way to convert rotary motion into linear motion.
One common problem with the design is, when it stops and starts at the same place the teeth can wear away from the stop/start points on the rack, with no apparent wear to the rest of it. This can be hard to spot without taking it apart, because the pinion hides the missing teeth.
If you can operate it with the cover off, you should be able to see the pinion spin, if this is the problem.
As I said, I'm not familiar enough with the 407 estate, so I don't know what's supposed to happen when you open the tailgate. It may, for example, close the glass before opening the door, or park the wiper. Or maybe it's like the Defender, which needs to open the window slightly, before you open the door.
If any of these are the case, then there may be nothing wrong with the door release. It may simply be failing the first task, so refusing the second.
Is anybody knowledgeable abut the specific model reading this thread?
A session on Peugeot Planet diagnostics might be useful.

Sorry, not been getting notifications properly on these but very grateful for the advice.

Will take a look at the rack, although I think it's probably not worn down as it doesn't work some days and then is fine the next until very recently when it stopped working altogether.
I wonder if the next option is more likely. I tried unplugging the handle for the glass and now there's no whirring but it still doesn't open, implying that it's failing to get the signal all the way to the motor for the tailgate. Maybe it thinks it's still open? I know a few months ago, giving the glass a bash would often help the tailgate to open.

Pop your VIN up and I’ll see what I have.

Thanks a lot, I'll get it when my wife is back with the car

[407]

Hi Marc

kick this thread as I have the same issue with the glass part not opening (whirls a lot)

can you post up some exploded diagrams to see what I will be looking for - I assume you need to remove the whole back inside plastic panel or just the carpeted bit (and break a lot of the clips in the process) .

VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] if that helps

[GiveMeABreak]

I'd start by focussing on where the wiring enters the tailgate at the top left:

This may be a weak point for wiring breaks or shorts over time as the tailgate is raised and closed. If the boot locking and unlocking is working, then the small wire to the window glass may need looking at too.

[407]

Thanks Marc

I suspect its the lock mechanism as when I push the glass windows button (under wiper) it sounds like a motor / servo is running but the glass window does not open

[407]

Marc

could I bother you to post up an exploded diagram of the inside trim for the 407 tailgate

I understand you can remove the inside tailgate plastic trim to get to the glass tailgate lock mechanism, just want to work out how without breaking everything

See pic attached that I found somewhere where they drilled a hole in the tailgate trim to release the glass lock as a emergency access I guess

regards

[407]

So, with my pug dog in tow, I managed to half pull the trim off with the glass tailgate closed without breaking anything

Seems you pull off the carpeted trim, ignore the riveted plastic as its just acts as a holder (I had my drill all ready to go) and the rest just pulls off, but for the part locked in by the glass tailgate itself.

I managed to work out you can manually release the glass tailgate by pushing on the slider - see pic.

Taking the Valeo unit apart, its got a toy motor and some gearing, and I suspect something has broken off the slider as the motor spins but the gears do not move anything. Some small plastics bits fell out but no idea where they fitted - one looks like a gear engagement. I was tempted to plastic weld some sprockets on it and may do so if I get bored (and the alternative below does not fit).

Anyway, I suspect a Renault Clio Megane 8200947699 tailgate mechanism might work as it looks the same (and only AUD$35 new) so will order one and see (eg unit has only got two wires for the motor so what could go wrong)

I've also put in a fishing line manual release as per pics just in case I ever need to open it (eg note small neat hole) and it works.

[GiveMeABreak]

I was out for most of yesterday, so only just picked up your post. I assume you've found everything you need now..