ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

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Chaser
Posts: 11
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 17:43
Location: Portugal
My Cars: Espace Mk2

ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by Chaser »

Hi,

Car a Renault Espace Mk2 Petrol 2.01 Operates LPG or Petrol.
Is anyone aware of a Relay that plays a part in the ignition system?
I have an intermittent ignition problem causing very bad engine missfiring - engine practically 'dies'.
Sames problem for both Fuels.

On a run of maybe 10 to 20 miles all running smoothly and then the Engine suddenly will start misfiring quite badly.
So badly in fact that I have to stop the vehicle especially as it runs on LPG it is possible to get an explosive mix in the exhaust due to unburnt fuel.
Switch off ingnition wait five minutes or so and car starts as if nothing had happened.

Is it that the wait allows sufficient cooling of whatever part is faulty?
Problem is so intermittent that not possible to demonstrate to a garage.
I did think it might be the Coil as jiggling the HT Lead from Coil to Distributor seemed to cure problem but I now have my doubts.

In any event I will replace the Coil next few days.
Then switch out all Relays I can find one by one.

Anyone and ideas?
Rgds
Chaser
jamescarruthers
Donor 2023
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Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by jamescarruthers »

I had a Master with the J5R engine, which I think was also fitted to the Espace. It also had an LPG conversion and ran like s**t— misfiring, backfiring, no power, etc. I tried replacing everything else but the final solution was the valve clearances.

After that it ran beautifully on both fuels. I have no idea how they could have been so far out, but they were. I feared valve seat recession from the LPG fuel running hotter but it never needed any work for thousands of miles more.

It also ran extra nicely later on petrol when I replaced the fuel filter with a Malpassi combined fuel filter and regulator to take up the change in flow from the mechanical fuel pump being slightly worn out.

So, maybe get them checked out? It’s a free fix if it is this!
1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
Chaser
Posts: 11
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 17:43
Location: Portugal
My Cars: Espace Mk2

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by Chaser »

Hi James,

Thnxs for that - I had top off at one time due to Timing Belt bust - Valves were spotless at that time and always has run really well on LPG since.
The thing is it runs really well until suddenly I have the problem - so I feel it must be electrical as opposed to anything mechanical.
Will let you know as and when I find it.
Best Rgds & Thnxs
Chaser
jamescarruthers
Donor 2023
Posts: 213
Joined: 25 Oct 2016, 19:31
Location: Cambridge
My Cars: 1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
x 48

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by jamescarruthers »

Good luck! Coil does seem like a good one to renew.

I found the Peter Russek book fantastic for my Master, and (probably) your engine, and see that they do an Espace one that might cover your car:

http://www.autobooksdirect.com/russek/r ... enault.htm

There are a few copies on eBay and Amazon
1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
Chaser
Posts: 11
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 17:43
Location: Portugal
My Cars: Espace Mk2

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by Chaser »

Hi,

Thnxs - I have found that the Rotor Arm has lost the little metal spring that holds it firm to the Cam Shaft at rear of engine where it fits - the Arm was very lose and jiggled about easily.

Also looks like 2 contacts on one side in the Distributor Cap have taken some wear whereas the other 2 the other side look pristine - so will replace Cap also.

Got a new one coming tomorrow - will replace both it and Distributor Cap - living in hope right now.

Best Rgds
jamescarruthers
Donor 2023
Posts: 213
Joined: 25 Oct 2016, 19:31
Location: Cambridge
My Cars: 1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
x 48

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by jamescarruthers »

Excellent to hear, a nice simple fix hopefully.

A big part of me wants to try a vintage Espace one day. This is weird as I didn’t get on so well with the Avantime!

I may have a set of new Bosch leads you can have but will have to double check next week… they could be for a Trafic.
1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
Chaser
Posts: 11
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 17:43
Location: Portugal
My Cars: Espace Mk2

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by Chaser »

Hi James,

Yet another break down today - put in a new Distributor Cap and Rotor Arm - car ran beautifully for an hour or so for some maybe 20 miles - just as in the past - then breaks down in middle of rush hour - not so good.

Engine does not quite die but pops and blows and no Revs just about keeps going but not enough to move vehicle.

Just like a typical general ignition problem - but practicallly everything now replaced - including all leads.

Coil swapped but to no effect - same problem.

Possibly you know the Coil used in this Espace MKII?? See my Image Attached.

The Coil is a 'push in' fit into a metal Support which is bolted to the bulkhead in the engine bay.

There is an Earth connection? from Coil to Support ( spade connector ) and 2 Pins protrude from the Coil which slot into Contact Points in the Support.

But under the Support there are 2 Plug connections - with wiring from the Car - 1 Plug with 3 wires and 1 Plug with 1 wire.

Could there be a circuit built into the Support that might cause this problem?
COIL on SUPPORT 3.jpg
jamescarruthers
Donor 2023
Posts: 213
Joined: 25 Oct 2016, 19:31
Location: Cambridge
My Cars: 1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
x 48

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by jamescarruthers »

If this is the same as the Master (which was also the same as my Volvo 480 as it also has a French engine!) then the 3-pin plug is power and the 2-pin plug is for sensing the position of the engine (crank sensor). There may also be an unused one which would feed a Rev-counter.

I’m in to guess work now…

Is there a braided bonding lead between the “support base” and a computer— yes even the carburettor Master has a little computer, which surprised me! If so, I’d be making sure these connections are nice and clean.

Also, can you remove the “support base” and make sure it is nicely electrically bonded to whatever it is bolted to?

Also, this is all fed by the crankshaft sensor… have you replaced this? This can break down when hot— in general, I don’t know about the Espace in particular.

I think the crank sensor will be directly connected to the “support unit” so it knows when to spark. If you don’t fancy throwing more parts at it… how about measuring the crank sensor’s resistance when all is well, then checking it immediately when it starts to run badly? The correct resistance will probably be in a Haynes or Peter Russek manual.
1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 3.0 petrol Exclusive
Chaser
Posts: 11
Joined: 22 Mar 2020, 17:43
Location: Portugal
My Cars: Espace Mk2

Re: ESPACE Mk2 - INTERMITTENT IGNITION PROBLEM?

Post by Chaser »

Thnxs for ideas - frustrating - this morning torrential rain - everyhting damp - starts and runs beautifully for all of 20 minutes.

Will continue the search - ref Crank Sensor - I will check - I replaced that the once - but long ago.

Best Rgds
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