Led Lights

[SlimJim]

Hi

I’m really keen to update the headlights on our car to LEd lights but not sure what I should buy or whether they are compatible.... any advice ?

If they do exist, can you use the rubber cap to stop the lights misting up ?

Thanks in advance

[Paul-R]

Have a read of this thread, see if it's of any help.

viewtopic.php?t=67820

[SlimJim]

So they are legal ?

I thought they would be standard on all new cars

[Paul-R]

LED (and HID discharge) replacement bulbs for standard halogen bulbs are not legal for road use in the UK (and the EU). IIRC a high intensity bulb setup needs to have a self levelling system to take account of any heavy loads carried and a cleaning system (usually headlamp washers) to be road legal.

OE fitted systems have these and have the optics optimised for the special bulbs involved so can pass the necessary regulations. These are the type that I think you mean. Yes they are standard on many cars but unfortunately usually impractical to retrofit.

Having said all that, in a well aligned headlamp system you are unlikely to be caught out with LED replacement bulbs. Some people have even reported passing an MOT with LED replacement bulbs in position.

[myglaren]

LED (and HID discharge) replacement bulbs for standard halogen bulbs are not legal for road use in the UK (and the EU). IIRC a high intensity bulb setup needs to have a self levelling system to take account of any heavy loads carried and a cleaning system (usually headlamp washers) to be road legal.

OE fitted systems have these and have the optics optimised for the special bulbs involved so can pass the necessary regulations. These are the type that I think you mean. Yes they are standard on many cars but unfortunately usually impractical to retrofit.

Having said all that, in a well aligned headlamp system you are unlikely to be caught out with LED replacement bulbs. Some people have even reported passing an MOT with LED replacement bulbs in position.

My youngest has crap lights in her Megane C+C. May have a shot at LEDs in it.

[white exec]

Two separate issues with LED bulbs...

First is that they can just be too bright for the job, eg in the case of "upgraded" number plate lights, often more in pursuit of 'a look' than aiming for something rugged/reliable.

For headlights, the problem of dazzle and wrongly shaped beams is a matter of optical design.
Headlight reflectors and glasses designed for H1/H4 etc halogen bulbs are built around the "point source of light" of the tiny bulb filament. Most LED substitutes aren't using a single light element, but multiple surface-mount LEDs in order to produce sufficient total light output. Even some of the most recent ones use two of these, mounted back-to-back.

This much larger source of light upsets both dipped and main beams, as the optical elements were not designed for this. The net effect is that the headlights now produce a scattered flood of light on main beam, rather than one beamed straight along the road, and a scattered and poorly formed dipped beam, without its crisp horizontal cut-off. Add in the higher lumens output of most of these LEDs, and the fact that many of them operate more towards the blue part of the spectrum (which scatters more than warm-white halogen), and the result is dazzle for oncoming traffic.

It's for these reasons that conversion of headlights designed for halogen to LED (and HID) is not legal in UK and EU.

[myglaren]

Agreed, some Led and most HID lamps are horrendous for oncoming traffic.
We will try Philips Xtreme vision bulbs, that worked quite well in the C5, and might try LEDs if they are a disappointment, and take them to the MOT man to check for legality - some are. I had a colleague who bought a Juke and bunged LEDs in that passed the MOT with no remarks on possible unsuitability.
We would of course do a practical road test to be sure they didn't adversely affect oncoming traffic.

[Paul-R]

For headlights, the problem of dazzle and wrongly shaped beams is a matter of optical design.

Headlight reflectors and glasses designed for H1/H4 etc halogen bulbs are built around the "point source of light" of the tiny bulb filament. Most LED substitutes aren't using a single light element, but multiple surface-mount LEDs in order to produce sufficient total light output. Even some of the most recent ones use two of these, mounted back-to-back.

This much larger source of light upsets both dipped and main beams, as the optical elements were not designed for this. The net effect is that the headlights now produce a scattered flood of light on main beam, rather than one beamed straight along the road, and a scattered and poorly formed dipped beam, without its crisp horizontal cut-off. Add in the higher lumens output of most of these LEDs, and the fact that many of them operate more towards the blue part of the spectrum (which scatters more than warm-white halogen), and the result is dazzle for oncoming traffic.

Agreed, which is why in my comments of the other thread linked to I pointed out that the Philips Ultinon Xtreme bulbs mimic as closely as is possible the positioning of the filament in a standard H7 bulb. Lesser quality (cheaper!) bulbs do not and as a result the beam pattern is less controlled.

I fully concur with the comment about bluish lights being worse. The Gen 2 Ultinon Xtreme bulbs are very good in this respect as they have a light temperature of 5800K. The Gen 1 bulbs (which are still available) are 6000K but still acceptable. You'll struggle to find cheap brands that are less than 6500K and I really consider them too blue to be useful.

At one point I found a test online of various bulbs which showed the beam pattern of the Ultinon Xtreme to be very good. The control was excellent with a defined cut-out and kick-up being maintained with maximum light focused just under the cut-out. Other LED replacements were not as good with one set actually being inferior to a standard bulb. Unfortunately I've never been able to find this report again.

A final point. It's very important to have the headlights accurately adjusted on a beamsetter. Further to that, I habitually run the headlights on the first click of the heavy load adjustment mechanism.

[white exec]

Osram Nightbreakers (very similar to Philips Xtreme) are now available in a non-blue version too, called Nightbreaker Silver. The same high output, but without the blue banding on the glass.

[SlimJim]

Thank you

[SlimJim]

Quick question, the boot light fixture has now gone. Do you know where you can get a new fixture? Keen to know to get a website rather than a delear option.

[GiveMeABreak]

I wouldn't bother faffing about trying to get an aftermarket solution - if you're talking about the interior boot lamp - you can pick the whole unit up including a bulb for about £5 from Peugeot.

[SlimJim]

Hi,

Curious to know, whats the best fog light to use for the car?

[GiveMeABreak]

Don't use LEDs for brake, fogs, headlamps, tail or signalling is the golden rule.

So for front fogs, a 3008 for 2015 will probably specify a PS24W and a P21W for the rears

[SlimJim]

Hey team, following up from this but where is the best place to get rear drivers tail lights ?