C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Not legally. These cars are certificated for public road use only because they meet or exceed the relevant emissions standards / legislation.

However, like most things this newer SCR technology, use under 'real world conditions' can't really be simulated properly in the lab. Things like longevity and time-related impacts on components are very difficult to simulate. The SCR system is a good idea and a relatively cheap and efficient way to eliminate most of the NOx produced by a diesel, combined with 99.9% of the particulate matter trapped by the DPF.

With regard to the Adblue systems, the earlier systems had teething problems - the tanks for example had a lot of metal components inside which over time, were adversely affected by the UREA solution causing corrosion and blockages. So the newer tanks were changed to incorporate more plastic components to prevent this. A lot of these tanks were replaced under warranty within the 3 years / 60k miles or equivalent, but in a lot of cases, PSA made some varying contribution to replacing these when they were out of warranty depending if the car had been serviced properly of course. So that is an example of where they have improved these.

Another was the unvented cap - which could hinder the pump from working correctly and cause it to break down - requiring a complete tank replacement because of the reasons already mentioned. A vented cap was introduced on affected models to solve that.

Then there was the issue of the NOx sensor harness wiring getting cut / burned through leading to the engine thinking the Adblue tank was empty and preventing engine starting.

At some point we won't be worrying about all this when they electrify us all - we'll just start wrecking other areas of the planet to make all the batteries needed instead :roll:
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by joecrow »

I have had further conversations with my local Citroen dealer, mentioning the "Guided Support", and they are going to carry out a diagnostic test and perhaps will pay some or all of the cost of putting it right. It helps that I have full service hiistory for the car, and it is just less than 5 years old, with 27000 miles on the clock. Its going in on 04/03, so I will report back next week.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Best of luck with it and yes, please let us know the outcome.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by Paul-R »

The guided support for vehicles apparently pays for the cost of the tank and you pay the labour. This is a very rare case of the cost of the labour being less the cost of the part - or at least for our 308. The labour for ours is/was £70 (including VAT).
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by mashbury »

I've had this wretched AdBlue tank problem as well. Symptom was (having just set off on holiday to Cornwall) it complained of an emissions fault, then a few miles later announced that the car would not be allowed to start after 600 more miles!. So, about turn and take another car. Not happy. Then later, driving it about, the fault disappeared..then, a few journeys later it appeared again...etc.

Dealer diagnosed the tank and yes, £1200 to change! The car was just over 5 years old, otherwise, the dealer told me, CItroen would have provided the part FOC. I complained to Citroen UK with some logical arguments - not least how come they changed the cap on this tank under a recall if there were not some serious underlying problem? As `givemeabreak' says, the pump trying to suck in a plastic tank puts strain on the electronics.

Anyway, after a LOT of phone calls and ping-ponging between Citroen UK and dealer in the end I lost the will and settled for 50% discount (on parts and labour)..a mere £600. They try to grind you down...and it works!

They mentioned an `abacus' (!?) which seems to be their goodwill (so-called!) calculator..this may be the same as the `guided support' mentioned.

I don't know for a fact but I believe the new tank (electronics) have to be coded in to the car so that is a potential problem if you try sourcing your own tank (dunno if it can be done via Diagbox). There is definitely a (different?) noise coming from the tank now for a few seconds having switched off the car so something has been changed.

So, if you are within 5yrs old (and less than I think 75000 miles), press for labour charge only, if not, press for a substantial rebate.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by Paul-R »

mashbury wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 22:38I don't know for a fact but I believe the new tank (electronics) have to be coded in to the car so that is a potential problem if you try sourcing your own tank (dunno if it can be done via Diagbox).
That's correct - at least for our 308. The tank currently supplied is a supersession part number and requires coding in. A Diagbox is used but it has to be a dealer's Diagbox as it requires a connection to the PSA servers in Paris. At least, that's what I was told.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by Paulcru »

This forum just saved me £1000. Last week I received the formentioned service alarm and adblue fault along with the count down from 700 miles on my 2017 spacetourer (peugeot traveller). Called my not so local citereon dealer who would not even confirm they were aware of the extended warranty on the adblue tank until they carried out checks with their own equipment. I'm mention that there had been a TSB by PSA and also mentioned guided support. Once they checked the car they agreed that citereon would cover the cost of the tank and I would only have to pay for the labour (£175).
Just had it replaced today and all faults are now clear.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by FranticA »

Hi, I got a shock today when I was told that my Citroen Cactus 2015 needs a new UREA tank and Nox sensor - £1,400 cost!!! The very same thing happened in 2017 when the car was only 2 years old - but in warranty. It was fixed then, but I am shocked and angry to find that the same expensive failure had happened again. Is this incompetence, or complete disregard for customers ? I don't know where to turn.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi, that is bad news. I can't confirm this of course as I don't know the part numbers involved, but it may be that at the time the first tank was replaced, it may of been replaced with the same part. If that was the case and before they were fully aware of a lot of the tank failures on some models, there may not of been a revised tank design available that would most certainly be used today.

Many of the later / replacement Adblue tanks have been redesigned, so there are less metallic components inside the tank that can be corroded by the UREA solution. The newer tanks have a lot more plastic components in now and I believe the venting has been improved - although on earlier models a vented cap was used to improve this.

It still may be worth a call to Citroen and if they did fit the same known faulty tank as a replacement, then it was a timebomb just waiting to go off...
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by FranticA »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 20:02 Hi, that is bad news. I can't confirm this of course as I don't know the part numbers involved, but it may be that at the time the first tank was replaced, it may of been replaced with the same part. If that was the case and before they were fully aware of a lot of the tank failures on some models, there may not of been a revised tank design available that would most certainly be used today.

Many of the later / replacement Adblue tanks have been redesigned, so there are less metallic components inside the tank that can be corroded by the UREA solution. The newer tanks have a lot more plastic components in now and I believe the venting has been improved - although on earlier models a vented cap was used to improve this.

It still may be worth a call to Citroen and if they did fit the same known faulty tank as a replacement, then it was a timebomb just waiting to go off...
Hi, I've contacted Citroen Customer care, have a case number, and after a telephone call yesterday my case has been passed to "level 2". I now have to wait for them to contact me. In the meantime I have the part number for the UREA tank that was put in as on the under warranty first repair in March 2017. CI9818703780 And the injector part number replaced is CI9802763880. I took out extended warranty for 6 years when I bought the car in October 2015, so assumed (silly me) that any glitches and updates would be done automatically. I do know that a vented cap was fitted at service at some time, but I don't know when. I'll see if I can find out. Thanks for your info already given - any further tips would be much appreciated.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so checking data, I can see that the tank (9818703780) you quoted was in fact one of the replacement parts - so we have that confirmed as being the only replacement tank available. It has not been further updated.

The UREA injector is the same part (9802763880) and there is no replacement for these. I didn't expect there to be for the injector as there are no inherent problems / faults. It will at some point need replacing as a normal service item, but there were no faulty issues with them.

Do keep us updated and well done on getting that warranty - the yearly cost of that alone should of paid for itself several times over considering the cost of the replacement tanks you have had (or in this case will hopefully get too). Whichever way you look at it, they cannot say a tank is a serviceable item - like a fuel tank, so there should be no issues in replacing it. The fact that the UREA pump is incorporated into the tank and is a sealed unit is not your fault they designed them like that.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by RustyComponents »

So here is my experience on the Ad-Blue tank matter.
Ad-Blue warning came up and I added 15 litres - I think it holds 16 so with the 1,500 mile warning it was about right. However the light remained on, drove for a while and then the car broke down with an unrelated fault (pipe came loose on a diesel injector and sprayed diesel all over the shop including the exhaust which was interesting). The local general garage fixed that problem (£30) and had a dig into the Ad-Blue warning, they said the tank was reporting it had 1 litre left in it, not sure what was going on, probably best to go to Citroen.
So booked into Citroen, Northampton (Bristol Street Motors) and agreed to pay the £99 diagnostic charge. It needed a new FAP which is the diesel particulate filter. 2 weeks later that was fixed at a cost of £700. However to use their words it was hiding another fault and the AdBlue tank "is reporting it only has 1 litre in it". How my little local garage spotted this "hidden" fault but Citroen didn't is a bit of a mystery. The quote for a new Ad-Blue tank is £1,700 plus 2 hours labour @£99+VAT per hour. Yes you read that right one thousand seven hundred pounds sterling (+VAT no doubt) !!
Customer services manager said that Citroen would not get involved and help out - the car is 2014, 8 years old, 55k miles.
I asked how they could help me with some options which turned out to be either pay or go. (No they would not fit a second hand tank if I obtained one and it probably would not work if the ECU in the tank knew it had been on another car (one was available on ebay for £160 with a 3 month warranty off an identical car).
So the car has been retrieved from Citroen, Northampton with its fault remaining (I selected the "Go" option) and returned it to another little local garage. They have obtained a new Citroen Ad-Blue tank for £800 and it will be two hours to fit at £45 per hour they think they can program it but I did check with Citroen and you guessed it £99 +VAT to program it.

So I'm left with a few questions:
- Why are Citroen charging £1,700 for a part my local garage can supply for £800.
- Was a FAP filter really needed? It didn't fix the fault and it was most defiantly not "hiding" another fault.
- £99+VAT per hour labour, hmmm.... guess I am paying for the expert knowledge and experience!
- Do you think I should take a barrel into their services department for customers to bend over - as a courtesy you understand?

Good luck everybody.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Without the VIN I can't tell you if that price was reasonable or not, but some are under £1k inc. VAT retail at Citroen and some are over this - it depends on the vehicle model, year and system used.

Some genuine tanks can be bought on the aftermarket from suppliers / dealers but you need to ensure it is the correct part. Also, be aware that Citroen may be providing a modified Adblue design to try and mitigate known issues with earlier tanks. You may therefore be buying the same tank you already had and not the modified one where applicable.

The DPF (FAP) is a completely separate system and has a finite lifetime, although the mileage of 55k is well below the lifetime of the filter. having said that, it depends on the type of driving you do. Lots of short journeys can mean more assisted regeneration cycles as the vehicle may not ne getting up to temperature or a lot of short journeys may constantly interrupt the cycle. This can cause more blocking and if it is allowed to get too high, then regeneration won't help. But you should of been getting warnings about this on the dash, concerning the risk of the filter clogging.

So it's all circumstantial without any hard facts at present as I don't have the info, as to what part you have had fitted and to the costs the dealer has quoted and whether they are reasonable or not.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by wheeler »

RustyComponents wrote: 04 Feb 2022, 21:50
Customer services manager said that Citroen would not get involved and help out - the car is 2014, 8 years old, 55k miles.
The official guidance from PSA for the extended warranty (for partial covering of costs) on the urea tank is up to 60 months or 93,000 miles. If it was outwith this you would need to contact PSA directly as the previous poster has done to get any help with costs from them.
RustyComponents wrote: 04 Feb 2022, 21:50 (No they would not fit a second hand tank if I obtained one and it probably would not work if the ECU in the tank knew it had been on another car
A used tank can be swapped to a different car no problem as long as its the correct tank for the car.
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Re: C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

Post by citroen since 1973 »

Hi guys, I'm feeling pretty worried and fed up. Reading though these threads, I never realised that AdBlue causes so many problems! Having had continued great advice from you all, about my old C5, especially from Marc as recently as last week, I now find that my (almost) 3.5-year-old, 28,700m, 2l C4 SpaceTourer may likely have the dreaded AdBlue issue.

The 1500-mile refill warning came on a week, or two, ago, but I've been really tied up with the death of my mum during the past two weeks and so I put the refill on the back burner. Yesterday, whilst travelling 40 miles down the M5 an orange message came up saying “Engine fault: Repair needed”. This was immediately followed by another amber warning saying “AdBlue Emissions fault: Starting impossible in 1300 miles”. A flashing AdBlue message, at the top right of the display panel, accompanied this. Over the next 20 miles this message jumped from 1300, down to 700 miles and after a further 90 miles, now shows 600 miles left.

This afternoon I put 10l of AdBlue fluid into the car and then started it up to see if, as expected, the messages had gone, only to find that there was no difference. I've also taken the car for a short, fast journey, but this has made no difference and all of the error messages continue to show, along with the 600 miles left before the car won't start. That's when I started searching and reading and discovered that I have probably got a problem!

It is some comfort to find that Citroen have apparently extended the warranty for this known fault to 5 years/93,000 miles, but also annoying to find that they will not accept total responsibility for a fault that they have designed. I don’t particularly like the local dealer we have in our town and have always preferred to use local independent garages for looking after my cars, but it looks like I’ll have to call the dealer tomorrow and see what they have to say. I’ll report back in due course, Paul.
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