Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote: 08 May 2020, 11:56
You need one of these, Robert...

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He'd struggle to get one of those as they were never available in the Australian market. :-D
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by Paul-R »

Did they not build them in RHD then?
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

CC1701 wrote: 08 May 2020, 09:08 Hi all,
a quick question about tyres and tyre noise.
Here in the "land gone under" (previously referred to as Australia) we have a mix of road surfaces. Some lovely smooth ones where the C5 is wonderfully quiet inside the cabin then we have the awful chipped surface roads, especially on highways, that cause a huge amount of road roar.

Have tried a few different tyre types but the noise on rough surfaces is always there and its difficult to hear conversations inside the cabin.

Am currently just about to replace Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres with something else. They are only 10k kilometres old, but i can't stand the noise. They were noisy when new and are getting progressively worse.

i see in this post that 'Y Cymro' has had both Falken FK510 and Goodyear F1 Assymetric 5. Both of which are on my shopping list (and about the only things). Which is the quieter?

Would appreciate any comments on tyre selection for low noise.
Being the 3.0 tt diesel, we need all the traction we can get, wet, dry, for safety (i don't drive mad too often). Wear isn't an issue for us, we don't do many miles a year.

cheers
robert
I think any tyres with huge gouges (radial grooves) cut out of the tyres are going to be noisier on chipped surfaces - just because of the design (think of the echo in a valley). I've decided that if I'm paying all that cash for these tyres I want as much of the rubber on the tyre rather than off for fancy tread patterns. So I went back to designs like the Michelin Cross-Climate tyres that were exceptionally quiet and were all weather tyres. They have great winter grip, excellent water traction and are quiet to boot, so was a no-brainer for me.

For 225 55 17, they are 'B' rated for Fuel Economy, 'B' for Wet Grip and rated at 69dB for noise.

They will vary slightly, depending on the wheels size, but they have great reviews and I've used them both on the X7 and the C3 and they are great.

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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by CC1701 »

Thanks for the input bobins. Have been looking through that site for info and ideas, its great to be able to compare different tyres and how drivers perceive / rate them.
Good to know that they are quieter. I wonder how that translates to noise inside the cabin.
They are possibly my first option in 235/50R18, for a little extra sidewall height for a more supple ride and to insulate road noise.
The goodyear option is the F1 Asymmetric 5, or maybe the less grippy, and less noisy F1 directional 5. only available here in 245/45R18.

Do those xm's come in other colours? :-)
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by CC1701 »

we don't get the crossclimates here. even though we live in the cold south, its not really that cold, like the uk or europe.

that sweeping pattern is similar to the F1 Directional 5, which are said to be pretty quiet.
its a gamble to choose from the range available, especially here.

i want all the grip, and quiet but its hard to find without too much compromise.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by Y Cymro »

The suspension on my H3+ Tourer is definitely getting harder at the front especially over bumps and potholes. Sport mode makes it stiffer so it doesn’t appear to get stuck in that mode. The rear still appears as soft and comfortable as ever so thought I’d replace the two front spheres.
Phoning my local dealer (Bassetts Swansea) they tell me I need part no 1638377580 and the OEM Citroen parts are £143.20 inc vat each. I remembered a post by a Marc a while ago that Citroen also has a budget brand so asked about these (the parts guy didn’t volunteer this) and was told there is a Europarts (I think that’s what he said) Citroen budget part available for £54.35 inc vat.

I’ve seen Suller and Lizarte brand for around the same price, and am wondering if anyone has feedback on these budget brands. I’ll probably go for the budget ones from Citroen though there may be a delay on delivery.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That's the wrong part number there Steve, it should be 1638377980, so maybe you wrote it down differently?

You've got the difference of a brand new OEM one versus a remanufactured one. They should give at least 10 years or 124k miles use.

The brand they use is caller 'Eurorepar' and here is a link to the spheres page for you:

https://www.eurorepar.com/GB-en/p/554/O ... on-spheres
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by Y Cymro »

Marc, thanks for confirming about the differences and also for correcting my part number.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated due to fitting new tyres)

Post by white exec »

Lizarte spheres (made in Spain) maybe not the best.
Are the two Citroen spheres both saucer type?

Have often wondered who actually makes genuine Cit spheres.
Ditto for the large range that Tecnosir (Italy) offers.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated)

Post by Y Cymro »

Due to an increasing harshness in my X7 Tourer’s suspension last November I had the 4 spheres replaced at my local AD using Europar brand kit. It hasn’t made any noticeable difference and the ride is still harsh.
During the work fluid was topped up and the level set at the dealer’s and it appears correct when checking it recently. Up/down height adjustment buttons work well and the car raises and lowers quite quickly on demand.
When driving, pressing the sport mode makes no appreciable difference to ride quality, or to roll and dive stiffness. The button warning light illuminates and I see the dash screen message so it seems that the mode is being activated. I assumed that activating sport mode added additional spheres into the system so didn’t consider replacing them when the others were done. I’ve subsequently discovered that rather than adding spheres when engaging sport mode, that the centre spheres are bypassed. It could be that if the sport spheres have lost pressure then my car is effectively in sport mode all the time whether or nor the sport button is activated. It’s worth noting that the suspension feels harder now than I remember it used feel when in sport mode when the suspension was working properly.

So if the centre spheres are the cause then my next step will be to get the remaining 2 sport spheres (or is it 3) replaced. Europar will be used for these too because they’re half the price of OEM originals.

Does this sound a reasonable approach? I’m asking in case there’s some other check I should be doing before investing in more spheres. Reading other threads here I see that ride height can cause suspension stiffness, as can over filling the eolysis tank. The ride height looks ok, and the fluid level checks out ok.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

Post by white exec »

You misunderstand what the various spheres do.

For normal driving, the centre spheres are switched into the hydraulic suspension circuit, and work as an extension to the four corner (wheel) spheres. This extra sphere capacity provides the Soft ride. On their own, the four corner spheres only provide Firm ride, never Soft.

When the system automatically switches to Firm (by sensing rapid steering, body movement, accelerator pedal travel, etc), the centre spheres are SWITCHED OUT. When the episode is over, they are switched back in, and the ride becomes normal (soft).

Manually selecting Sport mode does not switch out the centre spheres (it did do this on the original Hydractive 1 system of 1989), but selects a different set of parameters on the suspension ECU, which allows the system to automatically switch to Firm much more readily - i.e. the thresholds for Firm are reduced. Even in Sport mode, the system will still automatically switch between Soft and Firm.

So, for a soft ride, the centre spheres must be in good condition, and switching in correctly. It's also important that all the spheres are of exactly the correct type and damping factor.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

Post by Y Cymro »

Thanks for your detailed reply.
The Europar spheres were purchased from my local AD, the part numbers were checked here so I believe they’re correct.
I could arrange for the AD to replace the 2 centre spheres, and wonder if the switching of them (between sport and normal) should be checked. Can this be done using Lexia? I don’t have this so may have to ask the AD to check it.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

Post by Peter.N. »

These are the quietest tyres I have found, whether that translates into the best ride remains to be seen, I'm going to try them when I need replacements.

https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/runway/endu ... 2877104069

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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

Post by white exec »

Not sure whether Lexia will check whether the suspension electrovalves are switching correctly, or whether they're just there in circuit. Marc will know...

You can check whether the EVs are switching from Firm to Soft, by doing a bounce test...

- Car parked, start engine, and allow car to assume normal running height
- All doors closed, engine off for more than 3 or so minutes
- Press down hard on front end: it should feel almost solid, or very little give
- Same at the back
This is the car in Firm mode; only the wheel spheres providing (firm) suspension; the EVs will be switched off, isolating the centre spheres
- Start the engine, doors open or closed, allow car to resume normal running height (if necessary)
- Pushing down at front, and then rear, you should feel a real difference - softness, and a downward movement of several cm
This is the car in Soft mode: EVs powered up, centre spheres now hydraulically in circuit, and providing softness.

If no difference between the two tests, then either
- centre spheres lack gas
- EVs not operating correctly
- a suspension ECU fault, which should trigger a dash warning, and show up on Lexia.
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Re: Citroen C5 X7 mk3 hydractive suspension (updated after fitting new spheres)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Diagbox will provide you with electrovalve operation on the live data. I suspect it is your 3 centre spheres that may need replacing - as previously mentioned - if these are end of life then you will get a hard ride as you are only riding on the corner spheres. Whether all 3 centre spheres are gone (2 rear and 1 front) we won't really know. However, we can't discount the hydraulic block at the rear either. The electrovalve here can become stuck (plenty on this on C6 Owners) and I've done a post somewhere on it I think.

But as far as the X7 is concerned - you will notice an immediate difference when engaging SPORT mode on the Hydractive III+ system as fitted to the C5. it is instantaneously noticed while driving if you manually switch it on - so should be very obvious. If you are not getting that feeling, then you may well be partly in that mode if some of the centre spheres are or have failed. I would be inclined to hope it would be these rather than the block.
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