Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Skull]

Somehow the last 4 pages have only just appeared AFTER my last reply ....you've made it look easy getting your old one off in one piece .... looks like you're almost sorted Simon ....

Stickyfingers pipe picture looks the same as the ones I've done on Xantia HDi/Activa 2.0 tct

[white exec]

These folk can provide 4.5mm pipe and seals, swage tools, etc. They'll also make up a complete pipe.
Might need a definitive length, from s.c Parts.
https://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/hydr ... 3239-p.asp

To avoid damage to the union hex-nuts (and bleed screws), one of these single-hex flare-nut spanners does the trick:

[Mandrake]

These folk can provide 4.5mm pipe and seals, swage tools, etc. They'll also make up a complete pipe.
Might need a definitive length, from s.c Parts.
https://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/hydr ... 3239-p.asp

Thanks - will check that out. Maybe a complete pipe pre-made to length with unions already on it which I can just bend into the right shape is the way to go.

The eurocare link Richard posted earlier I notice will also supply a pipe made to length with unions fitted on it so I'll compare the cost and delivery time of the two. The cost of the pre-made pipe with unions is not much more than the cost of just the length of bare pipe.

I'll see if I can measure the exact length of the old pipe including coils - not that I don't trust service citroen not to have mistakes in their quoted length figure...

It's probably wise for me to add about an extra 5-10cm over the nominal length to allow for errors forming the radius of the coils etc... the run from the wheel arch to the priority valve has two 45 degree bends to traverse a large open space without any support brackets - any excess length can easily be used up here by just following a slightly different route through that open space or even putting a loop in the pipe, so I would start forming the pipe at the pressure regulator end and use up any excess length at the priority valve end of the run.

To avoid damage to the union hex-nuts (and bleed screws), one of these single-hex flare-nut spanners does the trick:

Yep, I've had 8mm and 9mm flare nut spanners in my toolbox for years...

[Mandrake]

And pipe by the cm: Pipe

Thinking of buying some pipe made to length from these guys but it doesn't say in the listing whether it's cunifier or stainless steel ? Can't really tell from the picture. I doubt I'd be able to form the loops and the other tight bends with hand tools if its stainless steel.

I guess I'll need to contact them to confirm what the material is.

[Mandrake]

Sent an email enquiry to both eurocare and citroenclassics for a pre-made 192cm pipe with unions so will see what they both come back with. Probably won't hear back until Monday now though as it's a bit late on a Saturday.

[Skull]

The one on my 2.1 TD thread was under £20

[Mandrake]

Thanks to everyone for their help especially David with the offer of use of a flaring tool - in the end for expediency sake to get the car back on the road ASAP I've ordered a pre-made pipe with unions on it from eurocare which will hopefully arrive before the weekend.

Eurocare replied to my saturday email inquiry today and citroenclassics..... didn't... so they missed out. I'm eager to get the car repaired this weekend as the weather should be good and I need to get back on track with my cell swap project on the Ion which has been set back a bit due to the Xantia breaking down.

On the Ion cell swap front I ordered the M12 x 1.25 threaded rod and nuts today and yesterday I picked up the timber, nail plates and bolts for the caster wheels so I now have everything I need to put together the battery support trolley so hopefully will get that done this weekend as well.

That only leaves figuring out how to get the car up high enough in the air and stable to get the battery out. I need to raise the car about 40cm off the ground relative to normal ride height and figuring out how to do that with materials and tools I already have or at minimal cost is proving to be a challenge....

For example the left hand side of the car needs to be unobstructed between the wheels to allow the trolley to roll the battery out between front and rear left wheels, and the battery needs to drop down low enough for the vent tower at the front to clear the body of the car.

[RichardW]

That only leaves figuring out how to get the car up high enough in the air and stable to get the battery out. I need to raise the car about 40cm off the ground relative to normal ride height and figuring out how to do that with materials and tools I already have or at minimal cost is proving to be a challenge....

For example the left hand side of the car needs to be unobstructed between the wheels to allow the trolley to roll the battery out between front and rear left wheels, and the battery needs to drop down low enough for the vent tower at the front to clear the body of the car.

I've got lengths of 6x2 structural grade - we can cut to length to span the subframe at the front (and presume there is similar at the rear?) then jack up in centre, set the ends on stands, then add packing (more bits of 6x2!) in the centre to re-jack to get the right height. I would just need to recover the 'spare' axle stand that has been under the Visa for about 3 years. Or buy another pair!!

[Mandrake]

I've got lengths of 6x2 structural grade - we can cut to length to span the subframe at the front (and presume there is similar at the rear?) then jack up in centre, set the ends on stands, then add packing (more bits of 6x2!) in the centre to re-jack to get the right height.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is 6x2 structural grade - wood, or metal ?

I would just need to recover the 'spare' axle stand that has been under the Visa for about 3 years. Or buy another pair!!

Don't worry about digging that out - I already have four axle stands... two of them are almost flat topped (the ones you've usually seen me use, with wood chocks on the top to rest flat on the chassis) and the other two are actual "axle" stands with a Y shaped top piece that I don't really use as they won't rest flat on a chassis, but they will probably be OK to directly support the beam axle at the rear of the car...

I also have a few 2400x100x200mm wooden sleepers destined for a garden project that I could potentially cut up and use for extra height - one of those cut to the wheel track to go between the left and right wheels at front and rear to support a pair of axle stands might just give enough extra height but I'm not sure - I'll have to do some measuring tomorrow to see as I don't know off hand how much reach the stands have as I usually use them nearly right down.

I'd be reluctant to stack two layers of sleepers as that might start getting a bit wobbly... and even if the height is enough my jack has a relatively limited reach which means yet more sleepers to put under the jack and lots of re-jacking to get anywhere!!

I'm starting to think jacking the car up high enough and lowering the battery down is going to be the hardest part of the job by far and that the actual cell swap once it's out will be a dawdle by comparison...

I'm also a bit worried about rusty bolts holding the battery chassis into the car - when I had a peak the other day some of the bolts look pretty rusty... and they are all M12 x 1.25 as far as I know.

The threaded rod arrived already - I ended up getting high tensile rod and nuts just to be on the safe side. While I originally believed the battery pack to weigh 164Kg I've now been informed by someone who says they measured it that it actually weighs 230Kg including the chassis!

[Mandrake]

The new pipe for the Xantia arrived yesterday:

I panicked at first since I ordered 194cm (a bit longer than the official 187cm length on purpose in case any mistakes consume valuable length) and it looks far shorter than that coiled in the box but no, when I measured it with a piece of wire its the correct length, so looks are very deceptive, just like original pipe!

Looking at how thick the pipe wall is and how firm it feels (despite being cunifer) I think I have my work cut out for me bending the coils - the inside diameter of the four coils is 60mm, that's a pretty tight bend for this size pipe. I think I only have one chance to get it right and any attempt to straighten it out again for another try would result in the pipe splitting due to working the material excessively, and ideally I would want the coils to bend in the same direction as the bend that is already in the pipe to avoid straightening it and bending it back on itself unnecessarily. So I have to get it right first time.

I'm struggling to find a suitable mandrel to bend the pipe on after searching both home and work. Spray cans etc are 66mm which is a bit too big despite having an extra 70mm of pipe length up my sleeve - with four turns every 2mm I go over the correct diameter will increase the required pipe length by 25mm, so that would increase my required length by 75mm and I don't want to chance that and have the pipe come up short...

The nearest I can find is a glass kitchen bottle which is 58mm in diameter - sounds close but that makes my pipe another 25mm too long on top of the 70mm I already added, and I'm worried about pushing my luck forming the bend even tighter than it normally is. Ideally I'd like something about 62mm to bend the pipe around...

I'm hoping to install it on Saturday weather permitting so I might have to take my caliper to B&Q and have a browse through the isles of cheap cans and other miscellaneous items to find something of the right diameter!

[Stickyfinger]

Just put a U bend in it....

[Mandrake]

Just put a U bend in it....

In place of the four coil loop ? Doesn't sound like a good idea. The coils are directly clamped between the gearbox and chassis so have to flex to take up all the movement of the engine mounts - I'm already worried about the soft yield material in this application so if anything I prefer a slightly bigger diameter than original.

[lexi]

Take a garden post and whittle it to the diameter. Failing that, clamp and glue 2 pieces of CLS timber and whittle that.

[white exec]

There will be a small amount of "spring back" in the pipe when it is wound around a cylinder/former, as it doesn't behave like plasticene. So of you need an ID of 60mm, your 58mm bottle might be just the job, as the coil will open out a tad after winding.

With that pipe, as you say, important not to bend it more times than necessary.

After you've fitted it, run the engine through its rev range, and check that the new pipe doesn't resonate (visibly vibrate). If it does, add some damping weight or padding/sleeving. Supporting pipe clips must be complete with their rubber cushioning sleeves - the more important with this softer and non-ferrous pipe.

[Mandrake]

So that's the pipe fitted yesterday.

Initially I found it tricky to form the pipe - not because it's hard to bend, but trying to hold both pipes side by side and bend it in the correct orientation without snagging on the work bench, moving around etc, but I got the hang of it quickly. I got my vice out which I've never used since buying it and temporarily bolted it to the top of one of my woodwork saw horses, and did the tight bends around a section of clamped 22mm copper tube which was a similar radius to the bends on the old pipe, and the 58mm glass jar for the coils.

There will be a small amount of "spring back" in the pipe when it is wound around a cylinder/former, as it doesn't behave like plasticene. So of you need an ID of 60mm, your 58mm bottle might be just the job, as the coil will open out a tad after winding.

You were spot on. After winding the pipe on the 58mm glass bottle it sprung back to about 61mm - almost perfect.

With that pipe, as you say, important not to bend it more times than necessary.

I had to rebend it in a couple of places (not at the coils though) but it handled it surprisingly well. The cunifer is really easy to work and I never felt like it was going to fatigue and snap.... Here's the finished pipe just before final assembly:

You can see the U bend I made at the top to use up the extra length I'd ordered in the pipe. There was loads of spare space around the priority valve for a bit of extra pipe and it made getting the entry angle for the priority valve super easy as I was able to just bend and form it in place with the rest of the pipe already on the car.

In fact what I ended up doing was copying the original pipe starting at the pressure regulator end through to the completion of the coils - from there I fitted it to the car and did the forming of the run from the coils through the wheel arch directly on the car to make it fit. It turns out that all the complicated slight sharp bends in the wheel arch area in the original pipe are totally unnecessary to duplicate - all it needs is a broad curve to follow the wheel arch as shown in the picture and it fits all the support clips etc perfectly and looks very neat. It was 100% leak free on first try as well.

The most difficult part of the job was getting the damn seals out of the pressure regulator and priority valve so I could fit the new ones. I struggled with those for a long time as access was so poor to get any sort of hooked tool in. In hindsight I probably should have just left the old ones in but once you start poking and prodding at them to get them out it damages them and then you're commited to get them out.

After you've fitted it, run the engine through its rev range, and check that the new pipe doesn't resonate (visibly vibrate). If it does, add some damping weight or padding/sleeving. Supporting pipe clips must be complete with their rubber cushioning sleeves - the more important with this softer and non-ferrous pipe.

There is a support bracket on either side of the coils - one is just a standard P clip with a rubber bush inside that bolts onto the gearbox, however the other one is a P clip with a rubber bush which then bolts onto a double sided stud with a large rubber block bush joining the two studs together. I presume this provides the damping to keep the coils from oscillating. They hardly seemed to move when I tested it.

As it was getting a bit late in the day I didn't get finished as I still have to deal with hacksawing off some of the bolts for the wheel arch liner to replace them with new bolts, and while I've got such good access I want to try to fix the cruise control as well (again!) as it's normally very difficult to get at and is now fully exposed. However unlike last time when it was a split pipe all the pipes look intact... so I need to find my portable 12v power supply to try powering the vacuum pipe directly to see what's going on.

All didn't go well though, in typical two steps forward one step back fashion when I started the engine after the car had sit for a week without use it literally blew a massive hole in the exhaust (almost with a bang) so it now sounds like a boy racer car....

I've patched up the pipe just before the rear muffer twice now - once last year and a second time a few months ago for the MOT but it looks like I pushed my luck too far. As the suspension is right down and the car still on axle stands at the front I can't get a close look at it but it's either got half the side of the pipe blown out or the pipe may have broken completely now.

So back to poland for another cheap exhaust...

http://www.exhaustdirect24.co.uk/produc ... 10483.html

I did get nearly 5 years out of the last cheap one so I suppose I can't complain. Hopefully this will be the last of it.

Between both cars and a few things around the property we've been stretched really thin the last 2 or 3 months...