Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moderator: RichardW
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
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Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Morning All,
One guess everyone to what I am refering to ?
The low pressure pipe to the steering pinion.
It is only weeping gently but I'm considering my options.
I'm thinking of using epoxy resin and sealing it permantly.
My only concern is, will the LDS fluid react with the resin.
Thoughts please,
Kenny
One guess everyone to what I am refering to ?
The low pressure pipe to the steering pinion.
It is only weeping gently but I'm considering my options.
I'm thinking of using epoxy resin and sealing it permantly.
My only concern is, will the LDS fluid react with the resin.
Thoughts please,
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- white exec
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take it it's this one again, Kenny.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61239&p=591754#p590623
Did you try a slightly thicker Viton O-ring? How was it left, eventually?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61239&p=591754#p590623
Did you try a slightly thicker Viton O-ring? How was it left, eventually?
Chris
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The pipes on the X7 are a soft aluminum alloy and can be easily bent out of shape. I know it is not the easiest job in the world, but once off the car, or away from the rack try to pass a small drill down the end of the pipe to make sure it is still round or make round again.
As for the seals, I used 1 off, 8mm & 1 off 9 mm bore o-rings made from 2 mm diameter Viton rubber, not sure which one is for the low pressure pipe I have had no sealing issues...yet.
Also, Is the forked plate that holds the tubes in place flat and nothing trapped between it and the rack housing? or The low pressure pipe is not routed the wrong way, under tension before being clamped?
Good luck!
As for the seals, I used 1 off, 8mm & 1 off 9 mm bore o-rings made from 2 mm diameter Viton rubber, not sure which one is for the low pressure pipe I have had no sealing issues...yet.
Also, Is the forked plate that holds the tubes in place flat and nothing trapped between it and the rack housing? or The low pressure pipe is not routed the wrong way, under tension before being clamped?
Good luck!
Stu
"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
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"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
- KennyW
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stu,
I used new Viton rubber o seals 8mm and 9mm, 2mm thick.
The plate as far as I can tell is flat.
I don't know about the roundness of the pipes.
Kenny
I used new Viton rubber o seals 8mm and 9mm, 2mm thick.
The plate as far as I can tell is flat.
I don't know about the roundness of the pipes.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would it be possible to up the O-ring thickness by a small amount?
Needs to be the tightest fit possible, without damaging the O-ring. Use a touch of Vaseline when fitting.
The O-ring must obviously be a snug fit onto the bore, but I'm not sure whether the O-ring is just meant to contact the sides of the bore, or whether it is also pushed down on to a seating in the bore as the clamp plate is tightened.
If the latter, then, with the pipes pushed in fully by hand, and the clamp plate positioned but not tightened down, there should be a small gap (maybe 1mm) between the clamp plate and the rack body, so that when the plate is bolted down, the O-ring compresses against any seating (and the bore sides). O-rings don't really pressure-seal unless they are compressed. Just a thought; not sure about the design of those bores.
Needs to be the tightest fit possible, without damaging the O-ring. Use a touch of Vaseline when fitting.
The O-ring must obviously be a snug fit onto the bore, but I'm not sure whether the O-ring is just meant to contact the sides of the bore, or whether it is also pushed down on to a seating in the bore as the clamp plate is tightened.
If the latter, then, with the pipes pushed in fully by hand, and the clamp plate positioned but not tightened down, there should be a small gap (maybe 1mm) between the clamp plate and the rack body, so that when the plate is bolted down, the O-ring compresses against any seating (and the bore sides). O-rings don't really pressure-seal unless they are compressed. Just a thought; not sure about the design of those bores.
Chris
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In common with quite a few modern car steering pipes, these should only really be regarded as single use. If you're lucky, you may get them to seal a second time, but the pressed collar on the HP and LP pipes is designed to seat tight into the pipes sockets on the rack and once it's disturbed it's pot-luck if it'll go back exactly in the right position. If you could find a way of reforming the collars or getting a wafer thin seal to sit on the collars so it seats against the pipe sockets on pinion casting then you might be on to a winner.
Note - one of the above pipes is for the pump end, but the principle is the same.
Note - one of the above pipes is for the pump end, but the principle is the same.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- bobins
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
white exec wrote: ↑17 Mar 2019, 18:23
The O-ring must obviously be a snug fit onto the bore, but I'm not sure whether the O-ring is just meant to contact the sides of the bore, or whether it is also pushed down on to a seating in the bore as the clamp plate is tightened.
There's no seating in the bore - it's just a straight bore that the 'O' ring sits in.
The 2 bores are 11.2mm and 12.1mm dia.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not the best, then. Thanks for clarifying.
Chubbiest O-ring possible (without damaging it) is the best option.
Polymax list a huge range of sizes of Viton.
As suggested, it might be possible to fit a second ring under the circular flange.
Chubbiest O-ring possible (without damaging it) is the best option.
Polymax list a huge range of sizes of Viton.
As suggested, it might be possible to fit a second ring under the circular flange.
Chris
- KennyW
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Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the replies, okay which o seal for which pipe. I thought it was 9mm seal for LP side ie bottom pipe on pinion.
Kenny
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- white exec
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- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O-rings are dimensioned as I.D. x thickness.
Best thing to do is measure your pipes and bore, and order up a few sizes, and see which gives best (snug) fit. Vernier caliper best for measurement, and not expensive either (if you don't already have one).
As a rough guide, choose I.D. of 1mm less than your pipe, and a thickness which will produce about 0.5mm of "squash" (compression) when pushed into the bore.
Polymax (in Bordon, Hants) have a vast range of sizes in Viton, and their website gives all the sizes and minimum order quantities. You can order O-rings in tiny numbers from ebay/web suppliers, but the range of available sizes might be limited. Suggest using the Polymax site to find what you need first. They are a good firm to deal with. Deliveries ex-stock really quick.
Best thing to do is measure your pipes and bore, and order up a few sizes, and see which gives best (snug) fit. Vernier caliper best for measurement, and not expensive either (if you don't already have one).
As a rough guide, choose I.D. of 1mm less than your pipe, and a thickness which will produce about 0.5mm of "squash" (compression) when pushed into the bore.
Polymax (in Bordon, Hants) have a vast range of sizes in Viton, and their website gives all the sizes and minimum order quantities. You can order O-rings in tiny numbers from ebay/web suppliers, but the range of available sizes might be limited. Suggest using the Polymax site to find what you need first. They are a good firm to deal with. Deliveries ex-stock really quick.
Chris
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it's the LP side, and only weeping, I'd be tempted just to back off the clamp, wind 2-3 turns of PTFE tape around the pipe under the collar and shove it back together....!
Richard W
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve seen people use PTFE tape to seal their oil drain plugs after an oil change as they can’t be bothered to get a new one, and it has been shown that it breaks up, allowing parts of the tape to enter the sump which can be seen after a future oil change. So not sure how robust it would be long term.
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Marc
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder (only wonder, as I DON'T know) what would happen if you put the old O rings in hot water for a while? Would it allow them to return to their original shape?
James
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- white exec
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once damaged or deformed, they won't return to original shape. Easy enough to obtain new, either singly or in a qty pack. It's unwise to re-use any O-ring that has been clamped; those in moving and lubricated mechanisms can be the exception, if not worn/damaged.
Chris
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Re: Well, Its weeping again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kenny - there's a fair bit on another thread about this when mine went last year:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60155&hilit=o+ring&start=45#p576062
With a link to the place where you can order as few or as many of the seals as you want - Stu and I bought these seals.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60155&hilit=o+ring&start=45#p576062
With a link to the place where you can order as few or as many of the seals as you want - Stu and I bought these seals.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
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