ABS/ESR

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morto
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ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

hello all can some one help me ive got a c5 2009 x7 and ive got the ABS /ESR and and electronic handbrake has disabled , so plugged Lexia in and the main code is the ESP81 Fault reading .. no communication with the gyrometer accelerometer sensor signal

ive no idea what it is I was expecting it to say a ABS sensor fault, any help please
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

ESP81 isn’t a fault code, that’s the name of the ABS/ESP ECU model.

Run a global test and let us know ALL the fault codes that will be displayed once you’ve run the test.

Some will be ghost faults if you have Hydractive suspension, but I can advise when we have the rest.

The ESP/ABS ECU will disable some of the parking brake automatic functions if there is a fault, such as Hill Start assist and will not provide emergency dynamic braking either until the fault is corrected.
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

Many thanks.. OK So there is 6 fault codes under ESP81
U1325 : Fault: no communication with gyroscope accelerometer sensor.
C1502 : longitudinal acceleration sensor signal fault.
C1315 : lateral acceleration sensor signal fault
C1310 : yaw sensor signal fault
U1305 : Steering wheel angle sensor missing communication fault: not distinguished
C139B : gyrometer accelerometer sensor signal fault

ABRASR : ABS/traction control
Response data
R6180966573028000039665730280FFFFFFFF0001FFFFFF00

State of the ECU: ESP81
Reference 1 : 9665730280
Reference 2 :
Faults present : 6

U1325 : Fault: no communication with gyroscope accelerometer sensor.
Characterisation : no signal
Status : Permanent
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : No holding
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : 000 °/s
transverse acceleration : 00.1 m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 46.8 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 10.4 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Main
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²


C1502 : longitudinal acceleration sensor signal fault.
Characterisation : Internal
Status : Permanent
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : Fault
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : Value invalid °/s
transverse acceleration : Value invalid m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 44.5 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 12.0 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Partial
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²


C1315 : lateral acceleration sensor signal fault
Characterisation : Internal
Status : Permanent
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : Fault
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : Value invalid °/s
transverse acceleration : Value invalid m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 44.5 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 12.0 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Partial
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²


C1310 : yaw sensor signal fault
Characterisation : Internal
Status : Permanent
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : Fault
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : Value invalid °/s
transverse acceleration : Value invalid m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 44.5 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 12.0 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Partial
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²


U1305 : Steering wheel angle sensor missing communication fault: not distinguished
Characterisation : no signal
Status : Temporary
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : Fault
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : Value invalid °/s
transverse acceleration : Value invalid m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 138.2 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 09.3 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Main
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²


C139B : gyrometer accelerometer sensor signal fault
Characterisation : Short circuit to positive or short circuit to earth or open circuit
Status : Temporary
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault
vehicle speed : 0 kph
Front LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Front RH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear LH wheel speed : 0 kph
Rear RH wheel speed : 0 kph
EBA regulation : deactivated
EBD regulation : deactivated
Anti-slip regulation with action on brakes (BASR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip with action on engine torque disconnected (ASR/ESR) : deactivated
Anti-engine brake regulation (MSR) : deactivated
Anti-Slip regulation with action on engine torque (ASR) : deactivated
Electronic Stability Program (ESP) regulation : deactivated
ABS regulation : deactivated
Recirculation pump activated : No
Electric parking brake status : On
Status of the "assisted holding" function : No holding
Braking status : No braking in progress
Yaw angle speed : 000 °/s
transverse acceleration : 00.1 m/s²
Steering wheel angle : 44.5 degrees
Distance travelled since last time ignition switched on : 0.0 km
supply voltage : 12.0 V
Braking pressure : 00.0 bars
status of the ECU : Partial
longitudinal acceleration : 0.00 m/s²
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, I just need you VIN - the fault codes alone would be ok, but that other info is useful. Leave it with me.
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Marc
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

many thanks VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Great, leave it with me....
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok so apart from U1305, all these are related tot he Gyrometer / Accelerometer sensor:
X7 Gyrometer.PNG
Gyrometer / Accelerometer sensor.
The gyrometer-accelerometer sensor is a piezo-electric sensor located under the handbrake. It is fitted on the vehicle in such a way that the connector is opposite to the direction of travel of the vehicle.

Its purpose is to measure the following parameters:
  • Yaw speed
  • Lateral acceleration
  • Longitudinal acceleration
The sensor acquires and transmits vehicle’s lateral and longitudinal acceleration and yaw speed information

Yaw speed is the vehicle’s rotational speed around its vertical axis.
The lateral acceleration corresponds to the acceleration experienced by the vehicle in the transverse direction (axis perpendicular to the direction of travel) and appears in bends.
The longitudinal acceleration corresponds to the acceleration of the vehicle in the direction of travel.

The fault codes relate to both non-communication with the sensor and also internal faults within the sensor. The U1305 steering wheel angle sensor may be symptomatic of the other faults as the ESP / ABS ECU has gone into downgrade mode so will not be taking into account the steering wheel angle info for the ESP operation most likely.

As just about all these faults are to do with the Accelerometer, I suspect that is where your fault is lies. The fault descriptions are below, but will point to either the sensor or more importantly the supply voltage to the sensor. Now I have highlighted in bold the bit on C139B voltage being low and this is a temporary fault. But according to your diagnostic data, the supply voltage is perfectly within acceptable parameters of 12V.

The sensor itself has the following characteristics:- Nominal supply voltage: 14 V, Gyrometer-accelerometer sensor supply range: 8 V - 18 V.
Gyrometer-accelerometer sensor maximum supply current : 130 mA.


U1325: The time for recording the fault code is 100 milliseconds - No transmission of datastreams by the gyrometer / accelerometer sensor.
C1502: The time for recording the fault code is 100 milliseconds - Gyrometer / accelerometer sensor internal fault
C1315: The signal from the gyrometer / accelerometer sensor is monitored by the ESP ECU every 100 milliseconds - Gyrometer / accelerometer sensor internal fault
1310: The signal from the gyrometer / accelerometer sensor is monitored by the ESP ECU every 100 milliseconds - Internal fault in the gyrometer / accelerometer sensor
U1305: The time for recording the fault code is 500 milliseconds - No transmission of datastreams by the steering wheel angle sensor
C139B: Gyrometer-accelerometer sensor signal fault : Open circuit, short circuit to positive, short circuit to earth - The time for recording the fault code is 100 milliseconds - Cabling or supply fault (Undervoltage)

So if you are happy that the voltage is ok and it is within the operating range, then I would continue to suspect the sensor if the wiring and connectors have all been checked for shorts or chaffing.

Has any work been undertaken recently or anyone gone a bit mad with a pressure washer?
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Marc
morto
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

I can't thank you enough for all the information ,,, now the funny thing is I got in the car this morning to go to work and all systems were working correctly with no faults? I'm going to firstly check how much currant is in the battery ... but do get the feeling this fault will come back and just check the connectors are all on .. but it is very strange for it all to disappear over night

Many thanks for now
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so what happens is that there are certain conditions for the disappearance of some faults - once those are met, the system returns to normal and restores the systems to full operation. - until the conditions for the fault reappear.

So it may be a connection or a wire - going through a lot of water may have caused a short, or as you say the battery may be on the limit. Keep an eye on it, but one thing you can do is double check your battery - 5 years is about it for one of these vehicles with all the kit on.
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morto
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

Hello Marc the fault has come back disappears for a while but now seems to be on full time again , so checked battery and it does seem ok at 14.2 v going down to 14.1 with everything running , I would say its ok ? Marc can you get me the OEM number for the Gyrometer / Accelerometer sensor. ive googled the part and very little if nothing seems to come up my quick fix would of been to just buy a second hand one stick it in
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It is part number 454921. A new one from Citroen costs £460.34 inc. VAT. Quite a lot inside that little box of tricks!
There a used one here for £10...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/CITROEN-C4-Pic ... 1109582939
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Marc
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 03 Mar 2019, 19:12 It is part number 454921. A new one from Citroen costs £460.34 inc. VAT. Quite a lot inside that little box of tricks!
There a used one here for £10...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/CITROEN-C4-Pic ... 1109582939



Marc your a top man pal just bought it at that price its worth keeping a spare one !! give you all a update when it arrives I believe I will need Lexia to install it
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here's the fitting procedure. Yes the sensor will need to be calibrated using Diagbox. That procedure will be contained within the diagnostic when undertaking the procedure, so I can't explain what is involved there as it is internal to the tool.
  • Handle the unit with extreme care and sensitivity as they cannot be used if they suffer any impact....
  • You'll need to remove the Passenger seat (Pictures show Driver's seat on LHD, but process is the same for the Passenger seat on RHD)
Removing Passenger Seat
Seat A.PNG
Trim Removal Tools
Removing
Perform the following operations:
Follow Battery disconnection part referred to in link and it is essential that you wait for the 5 minutes before disconnection to allow the airbags (inc. the one in the seat to discharge!).

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

Seat B.PNG
Seat C.PNG
Move the front seat (1) forward as far as possible.
Remove the bolts (2).
Slide the front seat (1) rearwards as far as possible.
Remove the bolts (3).
Seat D.PNG
N.B.: Tilt the front seat (1) rearwards (To make access to the connector easier).
  • Disconnect the connector (at "a").
  • Unclip - Liberate the wiring harness (4) ; Using tool [1350-ZZ].
N.B.: For the following operation 2 people are necessary.
Remove the front seat (1).
Refitting
Proceed in the reverse order to removal.
  • Apply thread lock to the bolts (2), (3).
  • Tighten the bolts (2), (3) to 2,75 m.daN .
  • Reconnect the ancillaries battery. (refer to Procedure)
  • Check that the electrical equipment is working correctly.
Removing Gyrometer

Follow part of this battery disconnect / reconnect procedure to disconnect the battery, complete the work required below, then follow remaining part of battery reconnect procedure:
BSI Reset / Battery Disconnection / Reconnection
Gyro.PNG
Release:
  • The carpets (1) and (2).
  • Remove the nuts (3).
  • Disconnect the connector (at "a").
  • Remove the gyrometer/accelerometer sensor (4).
Refitting

CAUTION: Any gyrometer/accelerometer sensor (4) that has suffered an impact must be replaced

N.B.: Respect the direction of fitting of the gyrometer sensor /accelerometer (4) (Connector towards the rear of the vehicle).

Refit:
  • The gyrometer/accelerometer sensor (4)
  • The nuts (3); Tightening to 0,8 ± 0,1 daN.m
[*]Connect the connector (at "a").
[*]Position: The carpets (1) and (2).

Refit the Passenger Seat
  • Reconnect the battery.
  • Calibrate the gyrometer/accelerometer sensor; Using a diagnostic tool.
  • Read the fault codes and clear them if necessary; Using a diagnostic tool.
Reconnect the Battery (follow relevant section after completion of any work in the Battery disconnect and reconnect Procedure link at the top of this post.
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Marc
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by morto »

Many thanks I didn't realise it was located under the seat I thought it was actually under the electronic switch … will wait for the part and do a slow but methodical job... it frustrates me that its a struggle to download a OEM workshop manual for the x7 8-[

if it wasn't for you trying to get any information would be very hard
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Re: ABS/ESR

Post by GiveMeABreak »

In the photo, you can see it is contained where the green and tan parts meat at the seam. There is a black arrow showing the blow up of that section. It's important it is fitted in the correct direction as per the procedures too.
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